explain dot underscore ._ files

[GoogleCodeExporter]

<http://groups.google.com/group/MacFusion-devel/msg/9ee5204dc56a3595>

> working with macfusion, macfuse & ntfs-3g
> 
> - using normal ftp-apps will avoid copying "._ files" to the
> server, but if you mount your ftp-directory with macfusion on
> your desktop these files will created. Especially for instant
> edting of *.css & *.html files or copying them to your
> web-directory via finder this will a greater issue, because e.g.
> pmwiki is not able to load a unique file anymore, due to the
> both files named "my_html.tmpl" & "._my_html.tmpl". Any ideas to
> handle this?

Original issue reported on code.google.com by grahampe...@gmail.com on 23 May 2007 at 1:34

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Behind the scenes, there is plenty of discussion of 
._ dot underscore files. 

._ 
not to be confused with 
.DS_Store

Behind the scenes? Not because the discussion is secret, but because there are, 
at the moment, degrees of 
guesswork. 

In the meantime, SSH users pondering 
._ issues 
might consider the -o noapplespecial option but PLEASE NOTE: whilst 
._ and .DS_Store files may look ugly, and be misinterpreted as litter, they 
sometimes serve a very good 
purpose. Ignore them at your peril!

Original comment by grahampe...@gmail.com on 23 May 2007 at 8:06

• Added labels: Fork_Stream, fs_ftp

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Continued from 
<http://groups.google.com/group/MacFusion-devel/msg/a834b98d245c5730>

From:     Stephan Becker
Subject:    Re: OT: Smultron, resource forks and ._ dot underscore files
Date:   23 May 2007 06:41:51 BDT

## prior to one or both of the comments above

> It's seems that your elaborating extensively studies about the phenomena of
> resource forks?
> 
> In that particular case the file has an recommended extension for PmWiki
> called *.tmpl and indeed I've used the "get info" & "open with" via Finder.
> 
> What I'm looking for is a general tool, which will avoid creating "._files" on
> network volumes automatically — like "Xupport" handles it with the 
".ds.store
> files" or even an implementation for that feature into the MacFusion file
> system; this would be the most elegant solution.
> 
> In addition to that, this issue does not regard only "*.txt" and similar
> files, but also image files. It's nice to have them, but even nicer to store
> those resource forks temporarily on your local disk — if this would be
> possible.
> 
> For example "Cyberduck" is / was my favorite app for ftp transfers, because it
> will not copy the resource forks onto the server. I've tried following:
> 
> 1st workaround
> - connect to the ftp volume via Cyberduck or via your normal ftp app
> - drag the file "my_html.tmpl" into a new folder on the desktop
> - open it in Smultron by dragging it onto the icon in the dock
> - save it without editing
> - drag the new folder with its content to the file list within Cyberduck
>   (invisible files will be copied as well)
> - open the folder
> -> result: NO "._ file" is created
> 
> 2nd workaround
> - mounting the ftp volume with MacFusion
> - open the same file in Smultron by dragging it onto the icon in the dock
> - save without editing
> - refresh your file list in Cyberduck
> -> result:  YES ".ds.store" & "._" files have been created.
> 
> 3rd workaround
> - open an "*.jpg" on a desktop mounted ftp volume with "Preview"
> - save without changing anything.
> - refresh your file list in Cyberduck
> -> result: YES ".ds.store" & "._" files have been created.
> 
> This will appear to all files and so to the folders, which will be opened &
> saved directly on mounted ftp volume via MacFusion & Finder. Therefore it has
> to deal somehow with the ftp file system by MacFusion and / or NTFS-3G driver
> and their related file transfer protocol, the way they handle such files or
> the way they are forced to proceed so by MacOS X.
> 
> So it would be a great step of development, if this could be solved by
> disabling "creating resource fork" in MacFusion's preference or its file
> system, because they are really unnecessary, as you proofed it with your
> personal resource, although there still has to be a different handling
> concerning "resource forks" of a particular file and "hidden files", which are
> necessary!
> 
> I'm not familiar with programming, but with logically circumstances and so I
> hope that my research will help you for your further development. Thanks in
> advance.

Original comment by grahampe...@gmail.com on 24 May 2007 at 5:46

[GoogleCodeExporter]

See also MacFusion issue 46. 

Cyberduck was by far my favourite FTP/SFTP client until I realised 
<http://trac.cyberduck.ch/ticket/374> -- wontfix -- which 
explained why some of my files had been ruined without warning 
through use of Cyberduck. 

Resource forks might be deprecated, but they *are* used. 

Apple's .webloc file format is exemplary of a format that has 
no  data in the     data fork and 
all data in the resource fork. 

If users upload such files using software that disrespects resource forks, then 
the resulting files will be 

    useless :-(

As MacFusion is, in users' minds, so closely associated with Finder, 
we should respect Finder's way of working. MacFusion should be 

    useful :-)

Cyberduck is still a preferred client, but I'm disappointed that it didn't 
_warn_ me before losing my data by 
design. A lesson learnt. 

## Resource forks and data streams: 
## beyond Apple

Apple's use of the resource fork is a separate debate, and 
Macs are not the only type of computer that use streams/forks. 
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/100108> NTFS was and is designed by Microsoft 
with this type of thing in 
mind. For the much longer list of file systems that are fork-cabable, see 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(filesystem)> 

Original comment by grahampe...@gmail.com on 24 May 2007 at 6:16

[GoogleCodeExporter]

regarding PmWiki 
-> this issue has been kindly solved with release "PmWiki 2.2b51"
-> "Ignore hidden files in skin directories when searching for .tmpl" 
Thanks to PM

Original comment by stephan....@nummer-neun.net on 27 May 2007 at 6:31

[GoogleCodeExporter]

This is a nice topic and all, but there is a HUGE problem that no one seems to 
have
caught.  I am using macFuse with macFusion and sshfs.  I have mounted my sshfs
filesystem with the -o noapplespecial option.  Now I am unable to copy files to 
my
mount using the Finder.  For example, I created a couple of jpg files in 
Photoshop
and tried copying them to my sshfs mount and got this error: "You cannot copy 
some of
these items to the destination because their names are too long or contain 
invalid
characters for the destination.  Do you want to skip copying these items and 
continue
copying the other items?"

When I click continue it creates a zero byte file of the same name as the one I 
am
trying to copy, however there seems to be no way to copy the actual file.  Any 
solution?

Original comment by xbox360%...@gtempaccount.com on 5 Jun 2007 at 6:07

[GoogleCodeExporter]

> the -o noapplespecial option

This is separate, 
MacFusion issue 46 
<http://code.google.com/p/macfusion/issues/detail?id=46>.

Original comment by grahampe...@gmail.com on 8 Jun 2007 at 3:19

[GoogleCodeExporter]

We have learnt enough about dot underscore ._ files 
to offer Help and documentation on the subject 
in the context of MacFusion. 

This issue now has a more appropriate Summary line and labels, 
Help
Component-Docs
Milestone-Release1.3

We can not expect to learn everything about:

  * Cocoatech Path Finder
  * Apple Finder
  * Apple Mac OS X
  * the various other environments produce ._ files

-- such files are produced in the absence of MacFUSE and MacFusion.

Original comment by grahampe...@gmail.com on 8 Jun 2007 at 3:30

• Changed title: explain dot underscore ._ files
• Added labels: Component-Docs, Help, Milestone-Release1.3, Priority-High, Type-Other
• Removed labels: Priority-Medium, Type-Defect