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mickelus / tetra

🔶- Source and issue tracker for tetra
https://minecraft.curseforge.com/projects/tetra
MIT License
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Modular armor #141

Open mickelus opened 4 years ago

mickelus commented 4 years ago

Questions and suggestions regarding modular armor are frequently brought up on discord, here's an issue to gather ideas but also to present the issues that we need to solve. Some of this stuff is assumtions on my part, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Things that need to be solved:

USMP-lancer commented 1 year ago

armour toughness should probably be relates to hardness, while density could effect both armour and toughness, at a cost to movement speed obsidian armour super protective but you walk much slower, with flexibility reducing the spees reduction something like toughness=material tier+(hardness/2)+(density/2.1) while actual armour might be armour=tier*2+hardness should probably also ensure only materials with tier 5+ can give hardness(prob using coding voodoo)armour types can be plated(natural state of most armour), chainlinked(much higher flexibility at a cost to armour points) or forged(more armour at a cost to speed)

USMP-lancer commented 1 year ago

be

(btw the armour calculations are for total armour across entire set, idk exactly how we would calculate per piece)

Fabizocker456 commented 1 year ago

I personally think that armour points should relate to the hardness of the material while the toughness (which basically increases armour durability) should be related to the material flexibility and only remotely to the hardness. An armour made of vines would be basically impossible to destroy but only give two to three points at best, while e.g. armour made of gems should yield lots of protection at the cost of durability. Of course, knockback resistance should be influenced by material weight.

Also, I personally think that the constants in any equation should be tweaked so converting vanilla armour into tetra should not modify it's stats too much.

SYUMJOBA commented 1 year ago

Well, I'll just write down my thoughts in a simple and concise manner to be quick:

Let us taxonomize a little bit:

   The whole point of tinkering in a mod is to _Manipulate the properties_:
     - add something to the mix
     - while sacrificing a bit of it

    To give tetra the sense of existing, you can simply:
      - make the addition WEIGHT MORE
      - than the subtraction

Other things that just make sense with tinkering are:

NOTE: Tetra already does this with regular equipment and it works like a charm:

  • you can add a guard to a sword for increased protection but slower speed OR
  • you can just a diamond binding to increase other stats but sacrificing protection

NOTICE THE BENEFIT VS BADFIT TABLE

View The Table | Benefit | badfit | | -- | -- | | Speed | Defense | | Defense | Speed | |. |. |. | Damage | Defense | | Defense | Damage | ### But **we too often sacrifice defense**, we use the **Sacrifice Framework** too often and with one single trait. Of course things from ‘Tetra‘ Must be kept like: - The base

NOTE: I played a lot of tinker's construct armory so I might be a lil biased, but I like it

Additionally Several armor pieces should have different responsabilities

graph TD;
    GenericTraits-->Protection;
    GenericTraits-->Agility;

    ArmorPieces-->Helmet;
    ArmorPieces-->Chestplate;
    ArmorPieces-->Leggins;
    ArmorPieces-->Boots;

NOTE: Agility can be expressed in several ways depending on the armor piece

  • body recovery (attack speed / damage during non full swing)
  • speed (tho I don't like touching what is ALWAYS TOUCHED, it ends up ] too much a single important thing)
  • chance to avoid damage (as if the armor could allow you to deflect it and move accordingly more easily)
  • speed while crouching

NOTE: Protection obviously has the more variants

  • fire prot
  • projectile prot
  • blast prot
  • generic prot [I think that you should be allowed to fine tune these by editing the armor piece]

Helmet

 graph TD;

    Helmet-->GenericTraits;
    Helmet-->Mind;
    Helmet-->View;
    Helmet-->Breathing;
    Helmet-->Consuption_(Food);

Chestplate

 graph TD;

    ChestPlate-->GenericTraits;
    ChestPlate-->Swiftness;
    ChestPlate-->Arm_And_Torso_Related;
    ChestPlate-->BodyWide_Effects;

Leggins

 graph TD;

    Leggins-->GenericTraits;
    Leggins-->Speed;
    Leggins-->Leg_Related;
    Leggins-->Jump_Height;
    Leggins-->Movement_Related;

Boots


 graph TD;

    Boots-->GenericTraits;
    Boots-->Movement_Related;
    Boots-->Jump_Related;
    Boots-->Walking_Related(What feet actually do);

What I mean here is

The point here being that:

the essence of a piece could be added to an armor as a:

And depending on:

Should imbue the piece with a specific trait, strengthen it and so on

How can this be balanced???

The answer is, with the whole point of minecraft look for it, and work hard in the crafting for it.

Within Tetra system I think words especially well because the amount of slots isn't really limited if not from a base

 BTW NOW LET'S TALK BASES AND STUFF

More Gems can give more effects to the armour (ok, listen, I'm brit ❤️ 🇬🇧 ) but to add more gems you need a solid base (sort of like tools).

The thing that might not fit with Tetra is the fact that this gem system isn't really something with the tools, but it could be made make sense by allowing the idea of:

  • you are imbued with what you are wearing
  • you challenge practical strength within the tools* after all it is typical to assign behaviours to people, while tools are an extension

Simply put: it does not make sense to add water breathing to a pickaxe ⛏️ 💧 🤔

## curious about psycho analisis talk? 🧠 🧑‍🦱 📖 We humans evolved as all species using a system of categories, it is very possible (if not almost certain) that these "categories" are imbued within the human mind of even a newborn. The most fundamental category is sex, it is older than trees themselves, we learn by attaching stuff to these catogories, and depending by how well cohesive and direct the connections are the better we use that information creatively. The reason for which we humans are _seemingly_ **a lot more advanced than primates** with technology, is because we have an ... interesting mind. Our mind can assosciate to these primitive categories everyday objects and surrounding stuff, making it incredibly interesting when you see the results that it leads to, like stories or adult content including animals, furry faces and so on or, more interestingly, allowing ourselves to interpret literal objects as body parts. Have you ever been felt torn apart because your dress ripped? Do not be surprised, you are mentally associating your skin to the dress and viceversa, overwriting the skin with your dress. The same works for any tool that you think about. We interpret a hammer like a punch of ours, a pickaxe like a naily poke and so on. So to make this make sense, these categories must be in some form respected, now that I talked about it I don't need to lay out the rules, you guys are probably smart enough to act along without even noticing. So for example tools should have things that relate to what you would think when you think about hands, like poking, punching, rubbing, scrubbing, and so on (**think in actions and moves, they are the perfect mental depiction, game effects are just pattern of these** ⏫ 🎥 ) while armor pieces MUST have a geniunly rich vocabulary about >NOTE: IF YOU SKIPPED EVERYTHING BECAUSE YOU'RE LAZY AND DON'T WANNA GO THROUGH ALL THIS READING > Remember that: > - our minds think of 🔧 tools 🔨 as our hands, it is something very deep in our survival > - so it does for armour and skin too > - so the whole system should reflect actions and feel like a connection to your body, not some external thing, NEVER DO THAT IN ANY GAME _Not considering this is a serious popular mistake that many games run into without realizing, and make the game a bit worse_

So How about composition now? I'll consider that:

So Armor Pieces could be like:

Helmet:

ChestPlate

Leggins

Boots

NOTE: Remember what I said earlier!

  • The amount of gemstones you can add depends on the individual material (I call these gem stones "trait stones" too]

OTHER NOTES:

  • Bindings here work in a similar fashion to the way they do in tools
  • All armor pieces have the option of editing them in a "aqua affine way", maybe with some crafting with prismarine crystals and shards

EXAMPLE GEMSTONES OR SUBSTANCES (mods can and should definiteily add more gemstones) prismarine shards - allow for water breathing glowstone - allows for light, or something with it, or with amplifying present effects emerald - makes you trade cooler with villagers, you have a bonus against pillagers tho you'll attract them more gold ingot - piglins are happy with you nether star - bro are you looking for godmode? (severly increases many stats) diamond - makes armor piece stronger in a few ways fermented spider eye - mobs may be poisoned when touching you redstone - you go faster nether wart - potions last longer algae - you have a bit more prot when in water lapis - enchants may be more effective and you are overall luckier gunpowder - something with explosion ... jumping? leaping? exploding on death? ... may more may be interesting

P.S. This makes think ... seeing all these armor abilities makes me think ... what if armors had special abilities that can be activated from player?? nah ... that would start being too much! But I'll leave it here as an idea 💡

This is my genuine idea for a Tetra Armor Sense, it mostly makes sense in my head and I think it will keep doing so

Tried to make the post as clear and fluid as possible, I'm sorry if I'm a bit vague and sound tired, I am, I'm just writing and thinking of this as it's late deep in night, have a great day guys.

Explosif3005 commented 1 year ago

@SYUMJOBA Some Thought: I was thinking while reading that directly touching speed, might not be a good idea but i ad one that resemble your "agility": I would call it "liberty of movement" or something... The important things is that this "liberty of movement" (that i will call L.O.M from now on) will provide adjustment to any change in the base speed of the player or the base swing speed of a weapon:

An another thing is the helmet apart from having a little effect on the previously mentioned variable i think it would be nice if it as more space for the "trait stones" or for stuff that augment the different type of defense... Which would make relative sense the head being a very sensible organ... That can help for balancing everything...

Also a final things adding compatibly for mod like epic-fight and origin for example can provide more variable to use...

I will return later to make a more detailed post with some attached file to talk more about my idea

Explosif3005 commented 1 year ago

I thinks it would also be good that we all agree on somethings for the armor so that @mickelus can work on it as it would be dope!

SYUMJOBA commented 1 year ago

@Explosif3005 I fully agree, any change must be contained within reasonable boundary, some wooden armor can't magically become diamond armor because the player was like "oh let me carve a few things on a bench".

And trait stones maybe are best if kept only to the helmet, I'd say these stones should be already present in the game rather than being added content from tetra, and no superior stone that just +1s everything.

I think that the customizable system we are thinking about should help each player highlight their combat style (one's tanky and one's agile) rather than just "improve everything", in that case its just another progression system like almost any other.

I'd say things like:

Etc ...

I hope you get the framework let me know of your thoughts on this

Explosif3005 commented 1 year ago

@SYUMJOBA

@Explosif3005 I fully agree, any change must be contained within reasonable boundary, some wooden armor can't magically become diamond armor because the player was like "oh let me carve a few things on a bench".

And trait stones maybe are best if kept only to the helmet, I'd say these stones should be already present in the game rather than being added content from tetra, and no superior stone that just +1s everything.

I think that the customizable system we are thinking about should help each player highlight their combat style (one's tanky and one's agile) rather than just "improve everything", in that case its just another progression system like almost any other.

I'd say things like:

  • Amethyst works for bowmasters, let them be faster and let their bows harm more, but make them weak in their defence (Amethyst is used in spyglass, so "distance")
  • Redstone might be speed because redstone signal is FAST, make the player faster but more susceptible to damage
  • Diamond would only add protection, nothing else

Etc ...

I hope you get the framework let me know of your thoughts on this

Yeah that is also why i am more leaning toward synergies with other tetra stuff, and modifier from différent mod, just to have the "normal armor" that doesn't change much, or the more specialized stuff like more agile and so sword's (for exemple) are more easy to use but with less amor, or more bulky, but sword's usage more difficult, and so on. In fact i had already an idea in my head like that it's just that your big post made it clearer for me. But i still have to find the time to finish a proper essay / document, for that. But i still hope that this task for this thread, are marked soon so that we can have armor with tetra...

But for the trait gems i thinks that we can use it on other parts but head still more efficient, and that trait gems (especially on the head) are concentrated more on speed, agility and proctection -> redstone is more speed / agility, and for exemple Amethyst provide protection against vision effect -> blindness, water? and so on? I dont really know right now...

Ps: Forgive my sloppy english, i'm french but i'm not yet bilinguist... So i have so difficulties...

Explosif3005 commented 1 year ago

Here is some thought about the variable that we can touch: Agility: penality / upgrade of modified swinging speed of weapon and tool (for exemple tetra)

Speed: the base speed of the player (a littlle)

Durability: the durability of the armor

Soud: additionnal variable that can appear we modifying amor, the effect is that it can randomly aggro monster in a certain range (good armor but can cause suprise attack by mob) (could also potentially be made in the other direction to lower the chance to lower aggro...)

Protections: the different kind of protection a basic (we can add or change some like: penetration type damage -> cactus and pufferfish)

Integrity: Base thing of tetra not need to expand much, but if we want to modify amor we need integrity

And then also some other that i dont really want to expand on here like vision or breathing for the helmet, jump height or running speed for boot / legging, anti-ice (name need to change) to reduce how much we slide one the different kind of ice and stuff....

What do you think @SYUMJOBA ? Give me your thought svp, so that it can make my job essyier, and have the view of an another person (i'm also trying a but at editting my comment for better readability).

Explosif3005 commented 1 year ago

(could also potentially be made in the other direction to lower the chance to lower aggro...)

Correction : (could also potentially be made in the other direction to lower the chance to aggro...)

Explosif3005 commented 1 year ago

Heres a few thought about how i would go about dividing things:

We could have one "handle" for the armor, aka skeleton, bindings, .... That would change the main familly of our piece of armor :

But that not all!

Althout it is less possible for a heavy armor to be like a light one and so on, you can still use multiple familly on to the different pieces of armor you use. And special module that cost more or less integrity will help bridge the two (One idea that stuck to me: have a light armor but a more heavy, big gauntlet that provide massive damage...). I hope that this please for the two side (no distinction light / heavy; distinction light / heavy) i'm still tring to figure out the things so its not all that redable and all my idea but i want the point of view of others!

RubenPX commented 1 year ago

Some spoiler from reddit

image

Furrygamer303 commented 6 months ago

You could make it so it uses the new armor trims from Caves and Cliffs. Make different trims/materials affect different stats, or add unique ones?

Or simply make using different materials add stats, like using diamond increases durability and gold magic capacity?

phantom745 commented 6 months ago

I think looking at the armor more like the toolbelt and less like the tools is a good option. Its a direct optional upgrade and not necessarily a needed use case. I would then lock it behind a found schematic. You could even make it part of the warforged set so that you would have to go to the nether and by that point youd be unlikely to be using leather for anything other than a material not a whole set. Also leans more to how the tool belt has leather or wool versions of some pieces that get replaced by a better iron or other metal piece later. For example you can add to that leather set youve been repairing and keeping with you for cheaper than making as whole new iron chestplate and if you put a vanilla iron cheastplate in the table it comes with an assumed leather piece underneath.

Think leather as the base layer ->you can add some iron upgrades but eventually need more integrity or schematic to go further-> you need a blackstone hammer to add better more specialized pieces to it

Ive always thought of mods like tetra as ways to keep that original wooden pick for your first stone as a trusted companion with you throughout a playthrough. Adding that component to your armor would be a nice addition.

Also no experience in the smithing or modding field so I would totally let my betters tear apart my idea and improve it. Sorry if someone already proposed something like this too. Didn't read through every post just a few large ones.

SYUMJOBA commented 5 months ago

@Explosif3005 I am so sorry for not participating in the conversation anymore, I really did not expect to be taken this seriously 😅. But yes, I especially like the Shoud trait, it feels like a renamed version of Stealth but with some twist, could create interesting game design tinkering possibilities with the warden and similar.

I also like the idea of giving good advantages at lighter armours, horizontalizing the progression, increasing so much more depth to the choice of a player before upgrading to some set of gear, as I believe that Minecraft progression is WAYY to streamlined and vertical. (Indeed one of the pretty things of Tetra is how it deepens the choices and better highlights the play styles of people).

I also appreciate the value associations you gave to gemstones already, very nice, tho thinking twice I like how mickelus is properly handling it fiddling with iron recipes, making the crafting process more of a "discover your style" rather than a "go look for gems, miner". It changes the message from the design I earlier suggested and allows greater expressive freedom.

Only thing I'd still add: individually customising colour by component, and adding better shader support.

I stopped playing Minecraft all of a sudden because of study, so pardon again, I just saw Tetra got updated with interesting armour customisation mechanics and I hope my comments helped a little bit in the development regardless.

P.S. why is this issue still open?

JackJones8 commented 3 months ago

so, if this is still relevant (i say yes, stil want tetra armor XD), i'd see it like this: major modules:

padding - "comfortability" (speed and jump boost), and armor toughness, decides a good bit of integrity

plating - raw armor value, vanilla transforms to "halfplate" variant, with heavy and light as options, deciding speed and attack speed more drastically than padding (and some scrolls hrom the dungeon for specials if you're feeling it)

minor modules:

trim - basically sockets

binding - extra integrity at the cost of attack speed (makes armor "clunky")

i'd just stick to making something, no need to make it great from the start, just make it then listen to the feedback

CoolDemon96 commented 3 months ago

https://github.com/AlexTheDolphin0/TetraticArmory

SYUMJOBA commented 3 months ago

@CoolDemon96

THE README OF THE PROJECT IS JUST ...

Brandon370 commented 1 month ago

guy's I have an idea for how to fix the armor not having a balance system for armors first specialized armor so now what does that mean it mean that you have different armors for different purposes like iron man so if you want more storge you could install patch's/pocket's/bags on the legging at the cost of integrity for example or fire resistance via blaze powder but I have a better idea that can go along with specialized armors and that being cores (side note please if we ever have a armor update please make it in to 1.19.2 please) now cores are kind of busted but that because they require an core holder and core holders could even have passive effect's like what if gold had a 10% resistance to magic and physical attacks and maybe leather could have a arrow resistance of 10% iron could have a 2% arrow resistance and 12% physical resistance diamond 15% on physical and 4% on arrow and 0.5 more armor. netherite could have 15% on physical and 8% on arrow and 0.5 armor and 0.2 armor toughness amethyst could have an immune to magic so that's my concept on binder's/core holder's and now cores gold could give you a heart of absorption and two seconds of regen for any mob you kill emerald could be forechain decrease trade's a emerald for every 5 mobs you kill whatever suit emerald and wither star the strongest but most cribbling one first creative mode flight 20% damage amplification with all weapon's and 10% damage resistance to all damage source's look super busted but the down side is that is has a five minute recharge time (five minute's is also the timer for how long it can be use for just so there's no confusion) and for every minute it is worn you take a heart of damage also you can wait the recharge time out but you can get it back instantly by carrying it in your offhand and holding any sword and charge it up for every second you charge is a minute and for each minute is a heart of damage so best core upgrade big cost the egg is it but worst so you can fly but you have to use a key (like f or g) for elytra like flight (kind of like the wings mod) also 10% damage and 5% damage resistance (of all type's so same as the wither star lol)

JasdanVM commented 1 month ago

On the topic of storages, I'd like to mention some major options that could be added to armor and where they could be added:

D7x7z49 commented 1 week ago

Tetra Armor Modular Design Suggestions

1. Helmet Module

2. Chestplate Module

3. Leggings Module

4. Boots Module

5. Additional Modular Design Suggestions

6. Armor Basic Attributes and Additional Attributes