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microsoft / PowerToys

Windows system utilities to maximize productivity
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[VCM] VCM utility moving to legacy in 0.67 timeframe (updated from community feedback) #21473

Open yuyoyuppe opened 2 years ago

yuyoyuppe commented 2 years ago

Update from crutkas:

Based on community feedback, we'll be shifting the decision from removing the feature to moving it into a legacy mode (maintenance only). This will still be in the 0.67 timeframe. Our team will only directly address critical bugs, security and accessibility issues.
We'll accept community PRs for enhancements but to date for VCM, has been small in comparison to others which was one of the supporting factors in our decision.

We love the community and feedback. Thank you for helping guide our decision.

SirHenryIII commented 2 years ago

Using the Video Mute a lot and also don't want to see VCM going away. W11 feature is not the same.

duberlyguarnizofuentesrivera commented 2 years ago

I feel sad that besides all opposition in the comments, this deprecation sign has been released in the most recent update (I updated just a few minutes ago and found out about this). What's the purpose of getting "feedback" if such feedback is going to be completely ignored? Does the voice of the community matter?

stignarnia commented 2 years ago

I agree with everything that's been said on VCM and I agree. I'd just like to point out that win11 "compatibility" is just marketing BS so if you like the OS litterally just install it through rufus, it will also pick up the licence no questions asked.

pablowbk commented 2 years ago

I just started using PowerToys recently, and VCM is the best thing that came with it. Please let us keep it!

Aaron-Junker commented 2 years ago

I feel sad that besides all opposition in the comments, this deprecation sign has been released in the most recent update (I updated just a few minutes ago and found out about this). What's the purpose of getting "feedback" if such feedback is going to be completely ignored? Does the voice of the community matter?

@duberlyguarnizofuentesrivera Most of this feedback came after the release of the new version.

We'll for sure reevaluate this decision. Altough I don't want to make promises of the outcome.

We don't ignore feedback and the voice of the community matters. Without the community, PowerToys wouldn't be there where it is now.

jonnywright commented 2 years ago

I am also on Windows 10 for the foreseeable future as my machine will never support Win 11. Please do not remove this feature.

I hadn't even considered users who can't upgrade to Win11 due to incompatibility.

shinayser commented 2 years ago

VCM is about 95% of my usage of powertoys. Yes, I use other features but they are situational. Since I am a home office employe I have to mute-unmute mic all the time.

win + alt + k doesnt work system-wide as VCM is, so it is definetly not a replacement.

Corax-0 commented 2 years ago

My still very capable PC is not 'supported' by W11. I love the VCM feature and will have to stop updating this excellent program in order to retain it. Please allow us to continue using this feature in future releases!

boardtc commented 2 years ago

Exactly, my laptop will not support Windows 11 and I have no plans to upgrade it in the next 5 years. Currently, Windows 11 is on less than 16% of windows machines. Desktop Windows Version Market Share Worldwide Why on earth would you remove this functionality in 3 releases time?

shinayser commented 2 years ago

win + alt + k doesn't work in Google Meet, neither Slack (i am on win 11 22h2). I am not joking.

Does anyone knows where this shortcut actually works?

grocal commented 2 years ago

Nice. It's 8 days since this issue appeared and... it has so many comments that only 6 issues have more. All those issues are at least 2 years old. 2 years. Dear devs, you really did stir up a hornet's nest with this deprecation. Question is - what will you do now?

whawn1 commented 2 years ago

MS has much precedent -- you'd almost think it's an unbreakable rule -- to remove software features or apps that are badly emulated or sometimes non-existent in later editions of the OS. Rather than eliminating this particular feature, it should be extended to the camera. Maybe even have a semi-automatic option, to close the mic and/or the cam when no reason to use them exists. I, frankly, don't think it's a dev decision. It's from the exec suite and, as usual, is quite wrong-headed from a user stand-point, but probably will (or maybe already has) bring in revenue in some way. Judging by my experiences as a beta-tester (back when MS actually did betas) all these many comments will be utterly ignored.

jimleroyer commented 2 years ago

I run Windows 10 and I am happy this will get removed. I am aware this is not a popular take, but that feature has been quite buggy for me as I always meant to disable it but couldn't, even when running PowerToys as an administrator (the activation slide bar just kept grey when in admin), and I tried various ways (but maybe you know some more? 🙏 ). Then the overlay would appear once in a while on my screen for a feature I don't want.

Yes, ideally, these issues should be fixed and people able to choose (and disable). I understand the users who want to keep it... and sorry for the unpopular take, I just wish that if the developers continue to support it, they do it properly.

EDIT: For folks downvoting me, my ask is: if you keep supporting it, do it properly please (don't keep buggy tools in -- maybe the dev team don't have enough resources or submitted PRs in which case you can help, hence the decision). I think that's fair.

sh-shahrokhi commented 2 years ago

let's actually give feedback to not remove it and see if they even care.

Jay-o-Way commented 2 years ago

VCM hasn't had a significant improvement in a while. I think, in the end, one of the reasonable possibilities is that VCM will be "extracted" to a standalone project/app. Maybe then - whoever shall be maintaining it - can focus more on the project and it would get even better.

bzzrak commented 2 years ago

@shinayser it works only in apps that specifically opt into supporting it. So far that's Teams and maybe Zoom I think. So it's not a replacement at all.

ShowMeBillyJo commented 2 years ago

VCM hasn't had a significant improvement in a while.

This is hardly the user community's fault. If the team want to remove the feature, we can't stop them, but they need to be up front with the justification. Is it because Win11 (poorly) replicates the feature? Because the module doesn't have a champion?

I suggest the team get together and get clear on the messaging.

schwaben-github commented 2 years ago

Well, as far as I can see, you will force me not to update to the v0.67...

ChaucerTheLlama commented 2 years ago

All devices are on Windows 10.... welp.

corinuss commented 2 years ago

VCM hasn't had a significant improvement in a while.

That's actually an argument to KEEP this feature. It doesn't really need to be constantly "improved" if it works (which apparently it does, as evident from all the comments here). Ideally, this is where you want your software to be, in an unchanging maintenance mode that requires little work from the devs and no changes to user experience...

crutkas commented 2 years ago

Hi all, I updated the body of this and the title. Great feedback here. I'll paste my update here so anyone that subscribes can read it.

TDLR: we'll keep it in but in a legacy mode.

Tweaked description from above:

Update from crutkas:

Based on community feedback, we'll be shifting the decision from removing the feature to moving it into a legacy mode (maintenance only). This will still be in the 0.67 timeframe. Our team will only directly address critical bugs, security and accessibility issues.

We'll accept community PRs for enhancements but to date for VCM, has been small in comparison to others which was one of the supporting factors in our decision.

We love the community and feedback. Thank you for helping guide our decision.

6Tom commented 2 years ago

Thanks for your wise decision and hard work. Love you guys, love Microsoft.

chjohans commented 2 years ago

@crutkas @team. Thank you for actually listening to the community feedback and reversing the decision to depreciate VMC, respect!

cristipopescu1 commented 2 years ago

I installed Power Toys specifically for VCM feature! ( since then i discovered all the other useful features, but VCM is what i was searching for when i found Power Toys)

It would have been great to have the option to always hide the toolbar (mute indicator). I have been updating the program as soon as every update came, hoping to get this functionality. I was completely surprised when I saw you guys were thinking of removing the feature altogether. Please, before you freeze development of VCM, is there any way to get the option to turn off the toolbar? :(

fluentmoheshwar commented 2 years ago

I am also against removing VCM. The new Windows 11 feature lacks the functionality of VCM.

mikekscholz commented 2 years ago

Between 2 different Alienware systems that are only 2-3 years old, worth several thousand dollars combined, neither support installing Windows 11, just sayin...

Pandeiroplayer commented 2 years ago

Keep VCM please!!

It is the only reason I use Powertoys, no other application does VCM like Powertoys does!

Jay-o-Way commented 2 years ago

Between 2 different Alienware systems that are only 2-3 years old, worth several thousand dollars combined, neither support installing Windows 11, just sayin...

@mikekscholz That hurts! Can I ask how come? CPU or TPM? Did you know of that one registry key that (usually) allows to circumvent that?

fluentmoheshwar commented 2 years ago

Between 2 different Alienware systems that are only 2-3 years old, worth several thousand dollars combined, neither support installing Windows 11, just sayin...

bypass it. I am using Windows 11 on 13-year-old HP Compaq 6530s. It runs smoothly.

DerGroessteMeister commented 2 years ago

VCM was the only reason for me to install Power Toys. In the mean time Power Toys has some other nice features, but VCM is still #1. I would dearly miss it!

fluentmoheshwar commented 2 years ago

win + alt + k doesn't work in Google Meet, neither Slack (i am on win 11 22h2). I am not joking.

Does anyone knows where this shortcut actually works?

I think it only works for teams.

RMRx commented 2 years ago

Win + Alt + K's function, even if implemented in the respective app, is not congruent with VCM'S function, a reliably disabled audio and/or video input on OS level.

I'm, juggling with half a dozen voice and or video comm apps, muting on OS level is that one killer feature I've installed Powertoys for. Setting + remembering hotkeys for each is a nightmare, using the same leads to conflicts. VCM protects both my privacy & my comm partners nerves.

I do agree though this feature belongs into every desktop OS. But, pretty please, as a system-wide input mute.

erosen03 commented 2 years ago

Please DO NOT remove VCM. VCM and FancyZones are the two killer features in PowerToys. With multiple conference calls every day using multiple apps, VCM is absolutely critical. I can't update to any versions of PowerToys that does not have VCM.

crutkas commented 2 years ago

We are not removing per the updated title and description

erosen03 commented 2 years ago

We are not removing per the updated title and description

Yes, I understand it's deprecated not removed yet. I've also seen how deprecated features tend to get removed soon after they are deprecated. I really don't want that to happen with VCM, since I consider that a critical feature for PowerToys. If PowerToys did not have VCM or FancyZones, I would stop using PowerToys. None of the other features are compelling enough to continue using PowerToys without VCM and FancyZones.

crutkas commented 2 years ago

@erosen03 we hear you. We looked at data and areas where we get contributions. Based on feedback here we are not removing it.

Jay-o-Way commented 2 years ago

I just hope vcm gets its last needed improvements before putting it on ice.

Symbai commented 2 years ago

Im launching PowerToys for the first time. I saw this feature. I clicked on the link that says "More information". I expected that it tells me WHY this feature is no longer available. The first post doesn't say that. It seems like its coming off from another discussion or issue but there is also no reference.

@crutkas: Could you please edit the first post and add a small note why this feature is not available or add a link to it? Thank you.

crutkas commented 2 years ago

@symbai, i did update the top description and title. We are not removing it per the updated issue description.

Jay-o-Way commented 2 years ago

Soo... Now the text in the message in settings is incorrect

toxicmender commented 2 years ago

So just a few things:

  1. Glad you guys reverted from removing to maintaining VCM in legacy mode, hoping this continues working for Windows 10 as it has been.
  2. A briefing about the difficulty faced due to new Windows 11 shortcut might elucidate people who understand things a bit more, as when Google's Android OS made an in built call recording & screening feature they had also blocked the way other third party apps used to do so, I expect similar shenanigans here.
  3. I'm currently sticking to Windows 10, not because Windows Settings says so but because a lot of stuff I need & use are still mainly compatible with Windows 10.
  4. I hope people saying they don't see the point of PowerToys without VCM (& 1 or more favourite features) understand this is a open source community project, people make and maintain it out of their own time mostly. I'm sure there were some Microsoft OSS Devs here who also do various important stuff within paid time, but they are going to be far fewer than public contributors.

Thanks, that's my 2 (or 4 I guess) cents on this

com314159 commented 2 years ago

Want us all to use teams? I think this feature is extremly important to all Apps, now only teams can work. That is robber

PainexD commented 2 years ago

Please don't remove it. One of the best features of Power Toys!

JacksonCampbell99 commented 2 years ago

Did anyone ever get this to work with Zoom? It always caused some weird issue for me.

demnoscom commented 2 years ago

Just wanted to add my voice here that I'm glad this feature isn't being deprecated now. It's one of the features I use most. Like others have said, our corporate laptops probably won't see Windows 11 anytime soon so this is still very much a useful feature. Thanks!

TechnoSparks commented 2 years ago

Literally the only thing I use PowerToys for, and it's better than what Windows 11 offers.

gabriel-vanca commented 2 years ago

Why deprecate it though? Why only reverse your decision partially?

Jeroen00 commented 2 years ago

Please don't remove it, my second favorite PowerToys feature!!

chjohans commented 2 years ago

Why deprecate it though? Why only reverse your decision partially?

I second this. I guess most people that commented on this just were relieved that this function would not be removed, hence no further comments on the "depreciated" status.

But it's a valid question to ask, why depreciate one of the (subjectively) best features of the Powertoys?

hunnymonster commented 2 years ago

VCM was the only reason for me to install Power Toys. In the mean time Power Toys has some other nice features, but VCM is still #1. I would dearly miss it!

Same here - it's the feature I use most often