Providing (real) flip of display over horizontal or vertical axis - for teleprompter use

[mihakralj]

Teleprompter solutions are becoming very common in tele-meeting times to allow direct eye contact during Teams calls.

When using a computer display as part of the teleprompter solution (with beam-splitting mirror), the screen needs to be rectified after it was flipped in the mirror. Despite the false/misleading name of rotation feature within Display settings, Windows does not offer screen flipping - only rotation for 0, 90, 180, and 270 degrees. There is no known 3rd-party solution for Windows that would directly flip the display - horizontally or vertically. Solutions exist for other platforms

Building a teleprompter to use Teams on Windows is a very cool DYI project with an amazing impact on meeting quality - if only Windows would allow display flipping.

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[crutkas]

From @mihakralj tweet to show "why"

[mihakralj]

The above solutions is bad alternative to original Teleprompter use case. Here is the real use case:

[LoudSigh]

I’d love to be able to flip the screen horizontally and vertically. Some 3rd party drivers did that years ago, but I haven’t seen anything lately. I use a teleprompter and a display to maintain eye contact in calls too.

[crutkas]

TLDR: i think the better solution is to use OBS and do the needed transformation and setting the source.

So we did a bunch of internal discussion here and Without OS level adjustment with DWM, OBS is chances are the best solution. While PT 'could' develop a solution, it would be inline with what OBS does now. OBS will be a better supported long term solution here versus PowerToys on this topic. They have a team that deals with the core scenario and edge cases.

[mihakralj]

While I understand you are closing the request, I want to be explicitly clear that OBS has none of this functionality and cannot perform a desktop-flipping function on the same Windows desktop computer. The fact that OBS is even mentioned as an alternative shows that the feature request was completely misunderstood. OBS is used to capture the source, but cannot create a virtual display or a target on the same machine.

For people that stumble here in desperation: the only alternative on Windows (at the moment) is Ultramon. It does require an additional display connected to a Windows machine and will project a mirrored desktop from display A to display B.

Linux and Mac can do this within video driver. Windows just cannot.

[crutkas]

@mihakralj please assume best intentions. Your ask is for PowerToys to do this, not Windows. How PowerToys would have to implement versus the OS are different. Right now, to do this, I would have to create a custom DWM to do this. i cannot do as the PowerToys team. Hence the "File feedback hub". Linux you can with scripting, unsure how you enable this for mac without a 3rd party program. Due to that, i'm unsure how under the hood they are doing this. Happy to ask a few Linux friends but i am unsure.

I did verify you actually can do this with OBS and i did it on my desktop. here is a quick screenshot of me doing it, with my primary 4k is outputted to my secondary 4k reflected. I intentionally don't have my sizing correct to stress the reflection.

You need to set the output to full screen projector to the monitor you want. See my right click

When i look at alternatives and all the edge cases that off top of my head i can think of (dpi / monitor rotation / size differences ...), my team would spend months nailing this scenario when there are great apps that do it better and more holistically than we would, for free with good perf (aka OBS Studio).

[FlyThePlanet]

Hi @crutkas ,

I'm not here to challenge the feasibility of the request by the PowerToys. It would be very nice indeed if you could provide a solution as the Windows team is still not doing anything. However, if you really can't, fine.

But I just want to emphasize that in many cases, OBS alone is not a valid solution. Indeed, you can create a source with your desktop or a software window, transform > horizontally flip the source, and displayed this source (not the scene or the preview) full screen on the teleprompter monitor.

BUT... this technique has significant drawbacks that makes it difficult to use and really not convenient.

• First, with this technique you're not transferring software to the teleprompter monitor/desktop, software that normally adjust to the teleprompter monitor resolution and size. You're just sending a mirroring of your main monitor, while this main monitor is usually big (23", 25" or even much more), in 1920x1080. Consequence, the projection for the teleprompter of this high resolution desktop (1920x1080) is shrunk to fit the tiny surface of the teleprompter monitor. It just becomes unreadable!
• The only way to fix this would be to strongly decrease the resolution of the main monitor to increase the size of what is displayed on the teleprompter monitor and ensure it's readable. But 1/ doing this you will also strongly decrease the resolution of your stream or virtual webcam video signal and 2/ the whole OBS and multiple software management will become more complicated with such a low resolution.
• Also, by just using a mirroring of your main desktop, you'll also not be able to use the desktop of the teleprompter to segregate the applications to display full screen on the tiny teleprompter monitor and on the other side OBS & the other control apps to display separately on the main monitor. It then becomes quite complicated to manage from the same desktop OBS, change the scenes/the transitions, plus switch in between all the software to re-select the right one and display it full screen for the teleprompter.
• At last, for everyone who don't really need OBS (for its scene & transition management), it's a pity to have to use it as it uses a lot of CPU.

So we still need another valid solution like what exists on Linux, most probably via Windows, monitor drivers or a video display utility.

So far, here are the solutions I've found:

Hardware solution that always works 1/ Buy a monitor with build in capability to flip the video signal, like the Lilliput A11, FA1016, FA1014 or FeelWorld FW1018V1 (expensive) https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1507741-REG/ https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1473463-REG/

Hardware+software solution that works 2/ Buy a Virtual Display Adapter (cheap), adjust the virtual monitor resolution to ensure the software content will be readable on the teleprompter monitor, then use OBS, create a source with the virtual monitor, flip the source and display it full screen on the teleprompter monitor https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XFB8KQV/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0918969YL/ If you don't have an extra HDMI or Display port available, then you'll also need to purchase an USB to HDMI or Display port Adapter (not too expensive).

Software solutions that work in specific contexts 3/ If you already own a monitor (not a tablet), buy a video converter with build in capability to flip the video signal, like the Decimator MD-HX or AVMATRIX SE1217 (expensive) https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1091826-REG/ https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1610215-REG/ 4/ If you already own a tablet (iOS 9.3+ or Android 4.1+), use the Flipped Display option of the VideoWall Engine of Spacedesk 0.9.67+ app (free) https://www.spacedesk.net/ 5/ If you own an iPad (iOS 10.3+), use the Teleprompter mode of Duet Air 1.0.7+ app (yearly subscription) https://www.duetdisplay.com/air 6/ If you own an iPad (iOS 9.2+), use the Teleprompter mode of Luna Display 4.2+ app (paid dongle). https://astropad.com/product/lunadisplay/ 7/ If you own an iPad (iOS 11.0+), you may be able one day to use the Teleprompter mode of Air Display 3.4+ app (paid app). The Windows version is under development with no release date (cf. FAQ of Air Display 3). https://avatron.com/applications/air-display/ 8/ You can also install Linux beside Windows or run a light version from a USB key and use the xrandr command (but it's not under Windows, even though it's on a PC)

Software solution that works with significant drawbacks 9/ Same as 2/ without using a Virtual Display Adapter : use OBS, create a source with your desktop, flip the source and display it full screen on the teleprompter monitor (may be unusable for most users, see above)

Software solutions that just flip a window content, not the whole video signal, so not the mouse movements. May be unusable for many users! 10/ To just flip a web page, use Chrome and the "Mirror" or "Mirror Page" plugins. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mirror/gjnjekopfnpjfbophjifjinbigkldcol https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mirror-page/fmifopjhkndcffjjdglomeipmgdkoaeo 11/ To just flip an online video or a video conference, use Chrome and the VideoMirror plugin. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/videomirror/lgknkdljklhkafjfekjjbldfcdnmdpkh 12/ To just flip a video from a file, use VLC and go to Video Effects > Geometry > Transform 13/ To just flip some text (the original purpose of a teleprompter), use a teleprompter software 14/ If you own a Mac, use this free utility to flip the content of any window... (but it's not under Windows) https://telepromptermirror.com/mirror-flip-your-mac/

Software solutions that look promising but impossible to implement so far 15/ On several page, some people talk about an old pvcmirror.zip utility that would do the job, but impossible to find any more. 16/ If you own a NVidia graphic card, some people mention that the NVKeystone utility would have this functionality. But I can't find much information about it. It seems it's not supported anymore on Windows 10 (Windows XP max).

[perholmes]

Great list. Gave me the idea to use my FeelWorld FW74K monitor, at around $120. Many of these field monitors have image flip. So now I simply have a Windows display inside my teleprompter, which is all I ever wanted. Finally a proper solution.