Closed seanmiddleditch closed 6 years ago
The idea of introducing a property in the refined type after offering proof of its existence and type in a type guard is definitely interesting. Since you didn't mention it I wanted to point out that you can do it through user-defined type guards, but it obviously takes more typing than your last example:
interface AccountData {
id: number;
}
function isAccountData(obj: any): obj is AccountData {
return typeof obj.id === "number";
}
declare function reifyAccount(data: AccountData): void;
declare function readUserInput(): Object;
const data = readUserInput(); // data is Object
if (isAccountData(data)) {
reifyAccount(data); // data is AccountData
}
The advantage to this approach is that you can have any sort of logic you want in the user-defined type guard. Often such code only checks for a few properties and then takes it as proof that the type conforms to a larger interface.
I like the idea of differentiating "trust me, I know what I'm doing" from "I don't know what this is, but I still want to be safe". That distinction is helpful in localizing unsafe work.
For anyone interested, there's a good deal of related discussion about the pros/cons of any
and {}
in #9999. The desire for a distinct unknown
type is mentioned there, but I really like the way @seanmiddleditch has presented it here. I think this captures it brilliantly:
Where
any
is the escape hatch out of the type system,unknown
is the well-guarded and regulated entrance into the type system.
Being able to express a clear distinction between trusted (any
) and untrusted (unknown
) data I think could lead to safer coding and clearer intent. I'd certainly use this.
I'll also point out that some very strongly typed languages still have an escape hatch bottom type themselves for prototyping (e.g. Haskell's undefined
, Scala's Nothing
), but they still have a guarded entrance (Haskell's forall a. a
type, Scala's Any
). In a sense, any
is TypeScript's bottom type, while {} | void
or {} | null | undefined
(the type of unknown
in this proposal) is TypeScript's top type.
I think the biggest source of confusion is that most languages name their top type based on what extends it (everything extends Scala's Any
, but nothing extends Scala's Nothing
), but TypeScript names it based on what it can assign to (TypeScript's any
assigns to thing, but TypeScript's {} | void
only assigns to {} | void
).
@isiahmeadows any
is universally assignable both to and from all other types, which in the usual type parlance would make it both a top type and a bottom type. But if we think of a type as holding a set of values, and assignability only being allowed from subsets to supersets, then any
is an impossible beast.
I prefer to think of any
more like a compiler directive that can appear in a type position that just means 'escape hatch - don't type check here'. If we think of any
in terms of it's type-theory qualities, it just leads to contradictions. any
is a type only by definition, in the sense that the spec says it is a type, and says that it is assignable to/from all other types.
Okay. I see now. So never
is the bottom type. I forgot about any
being
there for supporting incremental typing.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016, 23:04 yortus notifications@github.com wrote:
@isiahmeadows https://github.com/isiahmeadows any is universally assignable both to and from all other types, which in the usual type parlance would make it both a top type and a bottom type. But if we think of a type as holding a set of values, and assignability only being allowed from subsets to supersets, then any is an impossible beast.
I prefer to think of any more like a compiler directive that can appear in a type position that just means 'escape hatch - don't type check here'. If we think of any in terms of it's type-theory qualities, it just leads to contradictions. any is a type only by definition, in the sense that the spec says it is a type, and says that it is assignable to/from all other types.
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This could use clarification with some more examples -- it's not clear from the example what the difference between this type and any
are. For example, what's legal to do with any
that would be illegal to do with unknown
?
With {}
, any
, {} | null | undefined
, the proposed but unimplemented object
, and never
, most use cases seem to be well-covered already. A proposal should outline what those use cases are and how the existing types fail to meet the needs of those cases.
@RyanCavanaugh
If I understand correctly:
let x;
declare function sendNumber(num: number);
sendNumber(x); // legal in any
sendNumber(x); // illegal in unknown and {}
if (typeof x.num === "number") {
sendNumber(x.num); // legal in any and unknown, illegal in {}
}
BTW, what does the proposed-but-unimplemented object
type do? I haven't seen or read about it.
@SaschaNaz Your understanding matches mine, too.
declare function send(x: number)
let value: unknown
send(value) // error
send(value as any) // ok
if (typeof value === "number") {
send(value) // ok
}
On Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 19:11 Kagami Sascha Rosylight < notifications@github.com> wrote:
@RyanCavanaugh https://github.com/RyanCavanaugh
If I understand correctly:
let x;declare function sendNumber(num: number);
sendNumber(x); // legal in any sendNumber(x); // illegal in unknown and {} if (typeof x.num === "number") { sendNumber(x.num); // legal in any and unknown, illegal in {} }
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I think the request here is for unknown
to be { } | null | undefined
, but be allowed to "evolve" as you assert/assign into it.
Suggestion: drop unknown
keyword, and apply "the ability to evolve" feature to {}
itself.
That would limit cognitive load and proliferation of 'exception' types like never
, unknown
, any
, void
etc. But also it would force people to spell null-ability when it comes to the alien data.
The currently existing {}
type, and intersection with it will get an extra feature, being "evolvable".
Evolvable means you can probe its properties liberally without casting. Probing means accessing property in special known positions:
var bla: {};
if (bla.price) console.log("It's priced!"); // GOOD, we **probed** price
console.log(bla.price); // BAD, we're **using** price, which isn't safe
if (bla.price) console.log(bla.price); // GOOD, we **probed**, then we can use
Probing works very similar to type assertions, and in a conventional JS coding style too. After a property is probed, the type of the expression changes to {} & { property: any; }
, allowing immediate use of the property as in the last line of the example above.
I suggest these three supported ways of probing:
// non-null probing, asserts {} & { property: any; }
if (bla.price) console.log("priced!");
// property probing, asserts {} & { property: any | null | undefined }
if ('price' in bla) console.log("priced!");undefined; }
// typed probing, asserts {} & { property: type; }
if (typeof bla.price==='number') console.log("priced!");}
// custom assert probing, asserts {} & { property: type; }
if (isFinite(bla.price)) console.log("priced!");
It's crucial to allow "evolability" to more than just one selected type, but intersections too. Consider multi-property asserts that naturally come out of it:
if (bla.price && bla.articleId && bla.completed)
acknowledgeOrder(bla);
Lastly I want to highlight the real danger of unknown
keyword:
unknown undefined
Those two are way too similar, and be confused in all sorts of situations. Mere typos would be a big problem in itself. But factor in genuine long-term misconceptions this similarity would inevitably breed.
Picking another, less similar keyword might help, but going straight for an existing syntax is much better.
The point of {}
in the first place is to mark values we don't know properties of. It's not for objects without properties, it's objects with unknown properties. Nobody really uses empty objects except in some weirdo cases.
So this extra sugar added on {}
would most of the time be a welcome useful addition right where it's helpful. If you deal with unknown-properties case, you get that probing/assertion evolvability intuitive and ready. Neat?
**UPDATE: replaced unions with intersections up across the text, my mistake using wrong one.***
I think changing existing behavior is too surprising.
let o1 = {};
o1.foo // okay
let o2 = { bar: true };
o1.foo // suddenly not okay :/
No, the first is not OK either — you're not probing there (for non-null probing it would require a boolean-bound position to qualify).
With the probing definitions outlined above, compiler still errors on genuine errors, but it would handle probing/evolving neatly without excessive verbosity.
Also note that {} naturally fits with strictNullChecks
story — and with my suggestions it continues to do so neatly. Meaning it follows stricter checks when option is enabled, and gets relaxed when it isn't.
Not necessary the case with unknown
:
var x: unknown;
x = null // is it an error? you would struggle to guess, i.e. it impedes readability
var x: {};
x = null; // here the rules are well-known
I really don't like this. It removes a level of type safety in the language, and it would especially show up when you have large numbers of boolean flags on an object. If you change the name of one, you might miss one and TypeScript wouldn't tell you that you did, because it's just assuming you're trying to narrow the type instead.
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016, 08:52 mihailik notifications@github.com wrote:
Suggestion: drop unknown keyword, and apply "the ability to evolve" feature to {} itself.
That would limit cognitive load and proliferation of 'exception' types like never, unknown, any, void etc. But also it would force people to spell null-ability when it comes to the alien data. Evolvability
The currently existing {} type, and union with it will get an extra feature, being "evolvable".
Evolvable means you can probe its properties liberally without casting. Probing means accessing property in special known positions:
var bla: {};if (bla.price) console.log("It's priced!"); // GOOD, we probed price console.log(bla.price); // BAD, we're using price, which isn't safeif (bla.price) console.log(bla.price); // GOOD, we probed, then we can use
Probing works very similar to type assertions, and in a conventional JS coding style too. After a property is probed, the type of the expression changes to {} | { property: any; }, allowing immediate use of the property as in the last line of the example above.
I suggest these three supported ways of probing:
// non-null probing, asserts {} | { property: any; }if (bla.price) console.log("priced!");if ('price' in bla) console.log("priced!"); // property probing, asserts {} | { property: any | null | undefined; }if (typeof bla.price==='number') console.log("priced!"); // typed probing, asserts {} { property: type; }if (isFinite(bla.price)) console.log("priced!"); // custom assert probing, asserts {} { property: type; }
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I think you're missing a point @isiahmeadows — "evolvability" is only enabled for {}
and its intersections.
Most normal types won't have that feature: number
, Array
, MyCustomType
, or even { key: string; value: number; }
are not "evolvable".
If you have an example with boolean flags, let's see how it works.
A top type like this unknown
would be immensely useful for type safety reasons. It gets old typing {} | void
each time.
I would really like to see this made a reality. It seems like the type should be
type unknown = {} | void | null
to truly be at the top of the type lattice. I would've thought
type unknown = {} | undefined | null
would be sufficient, but void
is not assignable to the latter for reasons which I don't understand. I opened an issue to clarify this at #20006.
For those interested there is a microlibrary for this type in the meantime, although the definition there seems more complicated than it needs to be.
Have not seen it mentioned here, but this proposal looks quite similar to the mixed
type in Flow.
@pelotom Try type unknown = {} | void | undefined | null
. Also, in my experience, void
is kind of a supertype of sorts of undefined | null
, and I usually use void
instead of the union for that reason. I've also never experienced () => [1, 2, 3]
as being assignable to () => void
.
@isiahmeadows
Also, in my experience,
void
is kind of a supertype of sorts ofundefined | null
, and I usually usevoid
instead of the union for that reason.
undefined
is assignable to void
, but null
is not, when using --strictNullTypes
(i.e. null
is no more assignable to void
than to any other type).
I've also never experienced () => [1, 2, 3] as being assignable to () => void.
Try it:
const f: () => void = () => [1, 2, 3]
Long and short of the notes from #20284: What (if anything) should make unknown
different from a type alias for {} | null | undefined
?
@RyanCavanaugh
var x: unknown;
x.x // should still be unknown, but error on `{} | null | undefined`
@RyanCavanaugh
Long and short of the notes from #20284: What (if anything) should make unknown different from a type alias for
{} | null | undefined
?
No difference that I know of.
@saschanaz
var x: unknown; x.x // should still be unknown, but error on
{} | null | undefined
What? We already have that, it's called any
.
What? We already have that, it's called any.
Then the x.x
becomes any
instead of unknown
which has a different behavior.
Then the
x.x
becomesany
instead ofunknown
which has different behavior.
If arbitrary properties of x: unknown
can be accessed and have type unknown
themselves, that's exactly the behavior of any
, which is too permissive. It's just any
by a different name.
Is x.x(3)
valid (returns unknown
) ?
If arbitrary properties of x: unknown can be accessed and have type unknown themselves, that's exactly the behavior of any
The OP does not describe this explicitly but this is what I understand: https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/issues/10715#issuecomment-250327981 (which is not the behavior of any
).
Is x.x(3) valid (returns unknown) ?
The proposal from the OP says yes. (But I'm starting to think it is too permissive?)
pseudo_interface unknown extends null|undefined|Object { [key: any]: unknown // this[?] is unknown [any]: unknown // this.? is unknown [key: any](): ()=>unknown // this.?() returns unknown }
I would see the usage of unknown wrt to member retrieval as requiring a type guard before the retrieval is valid.
anyFoo.bar; // ok unknownFoo.bar // error if (unknownFoo.bar) unknownFoo.bar // ok
Is
x.x(3)
valid (returnsunknown
) ?
No. If x: unknown
, you can't do anything with it besides pass it around, or use a type guard or predicate on it to narrow its type to something usable.
We already have type guards/predicates for the purpose of evolvability... that seems to me an orthogonal concern from having a standardized strict top type, which is what I want from unknown
.
if (unknownFoo.bar) unknownFoo.bar // ok
if ('bar' in unknownFoo) unknownFoo.bar // ok
The if (unknownFoo.bar) unknownFoo.bar
syntax would be nice too, but again I think that is a different, orthogonal feature. You would want such a feature to work on other types besides unknown
, wouldn't you?
I think the idea from OP is this:
declare function foo(input: number): void;
declare var bar: number;
function processUnknown() {
var o: unknown; // we don't know its type...
o.baz // okay, but please be careful...
o.baz() // okay, use `o` like `any` in your *local* area.
foo(o); // NOOO you don't know the type of `o` so please please do not pass it!
bar = o; // No, DO NOT SPREAD the type unsafety
if (typeof o === "number") {
foo(o); // Yes!
}
}
Summary: Play with your unknown toy in your room, not in the entire house.
o.baz() // okay, use `o` like `any` in your *local* area. foo(o); // NOOO you don't know the type of `o` so please please do not pass it!
Why is the first any better than the second though? They're both completely unsafe.
I just want a proper top type. DefinitelyTyped is full of examples where any
is used as a top type, but that's obviously wrong because libraries should not be in a position to turn off type checking in client code, which is what any
does in output positions.
I'm not sure if this is what @RyanCavanaugh was referring to with the SBS comment 'Would hopefully remove a lot of confusion from DefinitelyTyped'.
If there was a simple top type unknown
, then that would be the obvious type to use in many scenarios that currently use any
, the difference being that it doesn't disable type-checking.
Why is the first any better than the second though?
An author can be sure that any unsafe object is not being passed around.
I just followed @marcind 's link above, and I think it's a nice and simple write-up of the case for unknown
(called mixed
there), and the different case for any
, which many mistake for the top type. It also mentions refinements as simply being what typescript calls type guards.
mixed
will accept any type of value. Strings, numbers, objects, functions– anything will work. [....] When you try to use a value of amixed
type you must first figure out what the actual type is [with a type guard] or you’ll end up with an error.
any
typesIf you want a way to opt-out of using the type checker,
any
is the way to do it. Usingany
is completely unsafe, and should be avoided whenever possible.
By this definition, unknown
is equivalent to {} | undefined | null
, but that's fine with me if we can have a single named and documented top type that is not unsafe like any
.
An author can at least be sure that any unsafe object is not being passed around.
A bug is a bug is a bug 🤷♂️ The value of that half measure is not at all clear to me. Meanwhile the cost seems high: yet another magical non-type like any
and void
with its own peculiar semantics, a complexity multiplier on the type system. And after all that we still wouldn't have a true top type!
@pelotom what would be a true top type?
@marcind {} | undefined | null
Using any is completely unsafe, and should be avoided whenever possible.
I like this 👍
Sounds better to file a new issue for mixed
?
@saschanaz Flow's mixed
is basically this proposal's unknown
(or what it evolved to be in the comments, at least). The only difference is the name.
The proposal is more complicated, I think we don't need this behavior for mixed
.
pseudo_interface unknown extends null|undefined|Object {
[key: any]: unknown // this[?] is unknown
[any]: unknown // this.? is unknown
[key: any](): ()=>unknown // this.?() returns unknown
}
...which allows let o: unknown; o.anyArbitraryMember();
If it's time to start bikeshedding names...
mixed
is a dumb name IMO, not at all obvious what that meansunknown
is pretty good.. a little long and looks kinda like undefined
but w/ealways
is what I've called this in my own code, because it's dual to never
top
has the advantage of being both accurate and succinct 👌 My searching skills are failing me, so can anyone point me where in the documentation/handbook (or the woefully outdated specification) it is described what {}
actually means. And how/if it's different from Object
(which is, of course, different from object
).
Perhaps it is (at least for the aspects I care about) a documentation problem?
mixed is a dumb name IMO. unknown is pretty good. I've also called this type always in my own code, because it's dual to never.
One advantage of copying flow's keyword would be more tooling support for free (or close to free). I'm working in a React project that uses flow and I find the VSCode typescript-based tooling works quite well in a lot of situations because the syntax is so similar. Obviously that should not be the driving decision, but something to consider.
To expand on the documentation issue, the syntax {} | undefined | void
does a poor job of conveying that something could be of any value but we're not throwing away type checking completely by using any
. Having an alias for that type union would at least provide something that users could search on.
Combining that with https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/issues/10485 would go a long way towards removing the need to use any
.
@marcind
My searching skills are failing me, so can anyone point me where in the documentation/handbook (or the woefully outdated specification) it is described what
{}
actually means. And how/if it's different fromObject
(which is, of course, different fromobject
).
Object
should just be avoided.object
is for objects which are not primitives.{}
is the type of an object about which nothing is known except that it's an object (i.e. not undefined
or null
). Thus {} | undefined | null
is the type of a value about which nothing is known, not even that it's an object.Thanks @pelotom. Marius Schulz's blog is super helpful and I should've know to turn there for answers.
@saschanaz To clarify, I said "or what it evolved to be in the comments", since what everyone read it as and discussed was closer to that of Flow's mixed
rather than the glorified any
that's somehow disjoint from every other type.
The
any
type is more permissive than is desired in many circumstances. The problem is thatany
implicitly conforms to all possible interfaces; since no object actually conforms to every possible interface,any
is implicitly type-unsafe. Usingany
requires type-checking it manually; however, this checking is easy to forget or mess up. Ideally we'd want a type that conforms to{}
but which can be refined to any interface via checking.I'll refer to this proposed type as
unknown
. The point ofunknown
is that it does not conform to any interface but refines to any interface. At the simplest, type casting can be used to convertunknown
to any interface. All properties/indices onunknown
are implicitly treated asunknown
unless refined.The
unknown
type becomes a good type to use for untrusted data, e.g. data which could match an interface but we aren't yet sure if it does. This is opposed toany
which is good for trusted data, e.g. data which could match an interface and we're comfortable assuming that to be true. Whereany
is the escape hatch out of the type system,unknown
is the well-guarded and regulated entrance into the type system.(edit) Quick clarification: https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/issues/10715#issuecomment-359551672
e.g.,
Very roughly,
unknown
is equivalent to the pseudo-interface:I'm fairly certain that TypeScript's type model will need some rather large updates to handle the primary cases well, e.g. understanding that a type is freely refinable but not implicitly castable, or worse understanding that a type may have non-writeable properties and allowing refinement to being writeable (it probably makes a lot of sense to treat
unknown
as immutable at first).A use case is user-input from a file or Web service. There might well be an expected interface, but we don't at first know that the data conforms. We currently have two options:
1) Use the
any
type here. This is done with theJSON.parse
return value for example. The compiler is totally unable to help detect bugs where we pass the user data along without checking it first. 2) Use theObject
type here. This stops us from just passing the data along unknown, but getting it into the proper shape is somewhat cumbersome. Simple type casts fail because the compiler assumes any refinement is impossible.Neither of these is great. Here's a simplified example of a real bug:
The version using
Object
is cumbersome:With the proposed
unknown
type;