Support Windows Narrator for screen reading

[nishant09]

• VSCode Version: 1.4.0
• OS Version: Windows

Hi, I'm trying to test Accessibility on VSCode. I found that VsCode doesn't support Windows Narrator. However, I was able to use NVDA tool. It works perfectly fine.

Is this the known issue ? It's working fine on mac os with voiceover utility

[alexdima]

AFAIK this is caused by Chromium

[rbenson]

I wouldn't recommend using Narrator to test anything. The tool is only meant for initial set up of Windows, or "I must read something, and have no other options." NVDA, JAWS[1], WindowEyes, or ZoomText are better tools to use to test. Support for Narrator is extremely basic due to the intended use.

Recommend removing the bug label

[1]- JAWS has a "free 40 min mode", but it is explicitly outlined in the TOS that use of JAWS by devs to use this mode to get around buying it is not permitted

[derekriemer]

Microsoft is actively developing narrator into a competitive screen reader. However, until Narrator supports IAccessible2 and can work with Chrome, it won't even begin to work with VS Code, or any other electron app for that matter. There's nothing the VS Code team could even begin to do to support Narrator until that time.

[rbenson]

@derekriemer do you have a source? I haven't seen that, and arguably that's not logical. I believe they support NVDA, and there was some interaction between MS and Windows-Eyes. If possible, I would recommend support in the following order: NVDA, ZoomText, JAWS.

[derekriemer]

My source is the speed of new features being added in windows ten. NVDA and Zoomtext are different products, zoomText is a magnifier, so it serves the low vision market. NVDA and Jaws are screen readers, and Window Eyes support has been discontinued by the parent company (http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/migrate/). If you want me to find more info on Chrome support for narrator, i can.

[rbenson]

I have to strongly disagree. Win 10's improvements to it is the first real upgrade to it in 15 years. You can get through JavaScript- controlled sites for the most part, but I wouldn't recommend it past using it to install other technology. Microsoft's unofficial view (I have chatted with the accessibility team) of Narrator prior to Win 10 is use it to install JAWS/NVDA/ZoomText, and stop using it. I haven't chatted to them lately, but I highly doubt they would say Narrator could be used at the same level as JAWS/NVDA. I doubt they will add much support to Chrome based on that reason

[alexdima]

Narrator fails to work in any <input> or <textarea> => non-editor specific.

[mike-lischke]

I'd like to add that accessibility is not only about screen readers (and text-to-speech support). Correct accessibility support includes the ability to identify every UI element individually and allow for certain actions (like reading/setting text in an editor area, scroll a scroll area, press a button etc.). And in this scenario vscode fails badly. Use any of the accessibility inspection tools (e.g. Accessibility Inspector, which comes with XCode) to view details of vscode. All you will get is the top level window, even if that socalled "screen reader optimization" is active. Compare that to any other desktop application to see what vscode is missing in this area.

[voronoipotato]

It would be super cool if the microsoft product for reading text also worked with the microsoft product for writing text. Narrator works just fine with chrome for the record. while the experience isn't optimal it's hardly the "literally nothing there". People making baseless claims about narrator clearly aren't using it. I just used narrator to read this .</del> Is there any way to get the team who works on narrator involved here? Here's the thing, sometimes it's nice to have my text read without having to install an entire invasive suite of software. I'm not blind but sometimes my eyes hurt and I want to close them. Narrator works "well enough" in that scenario.</p> <p>Edit it appears that chromium <textarea> does fail to be read by narrator, I had firefox open at the time and tested the wrong browsers, appologies. </p> <p><a href="https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=939620&q=Cr%3DUI-Accessibility%20os%3Dwindows">https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=939620&q=Cr%3DUI-Accessibility%20os%3Dwindows</a></p> </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="user"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://github.com/bpasero"><img src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/900690?v=4" />bpasero</a> commented <strong> 5 years ago</strong> </div> <div class="markdown-body"> <p>I think we have long enough run without support for Narrator, @isidorn I suggest you follow up if we can close this as wont fix given our NVDA support.</p> </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="user"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://github.com/isidorn"><img src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1926584?v=4" />isidorn</a> commented <strong> 5 years ago</strong> </div> <div class="markdown-body"> <p>Yes, on windows we only test NVDA and VS Code works best with NVDA. Even though we do not plan to fix this since this is an upstream issue, this one I prefer to keep open so that potential future narattor issues can be referenced against this one.</p> </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="user"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://github.com/derekriemer"><img src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/5350077?v=4" />derekriemer</a> commented <strong> 5 years ago</strong> </div> <div class="markdown-body"> <p>Note that narrator have done a lot of work to prepare. They might very well be able to be supported officially within the next year or so, if they keep improving things this fast.</p> <p>On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 2:27 AM Isidor Nikolic <a href="mailto:notifications@github.com">notifications@github.com</a> wrote:</p> <blockquote> <p>Yes, on windows we only test NVDA and VS Code works best with NVDA. Even though we do not plan to fix this since this is an upstream issue, this one I prefer to keep open so that potential future narattor issues can be referenced against this one.</p> <p>— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <a href="https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/10729?email_source=notifications&email_token=ABI2FPMIVJBF2HQ6CLFBFRDQNQ757A5CNFSM4CND3CNKYY3PNVWWK3TUL52HS4DFVREXG43VMVBW63LNMVXHJKTDN5WW2ZLOORPWSZGOEATLHWA#issuecomment-539407320">https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/10729?email_source=notifications&email_token=ABI2FPMIVJBF2HQ6CLFBFRDQNQ757A5CNFSM4CND3CNKYY3PNVWWK3TUL52HS4DFVREXG43VMVBW63LNMVXHJKTDN5WW2ZLOORPWSZGOEATLHWA#issuecomment-539407320</a>, or mute the thread <a href="https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABI2FPLDB5ZGBO746SOYYSLQNQ757ANCNFSM4CND3CNA">https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABI2FPLDB5ZGBO746SOYYSLQNQ757ANCNFSM4CND3CNA</a> .</p> </blockquote> <p>-- </p> <p>Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!</p> <ul> <li>University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.</li> <li>Accessibility enthusiast.</li> <li>Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.</li> <li>Open source enthusiast.</li> <li>Skier.</li> </ul> <p>Personal website <a href="http://derekriemer.com">http://derekriemer.com</a></p> </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="user"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://github.com/adil-s"><img src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/38745721?v=4" />adil-s</a> commented <strong> 4 years ago</strong> </div> <div class="markdown-body"> <p>it is not fair to say that narrator doesn't work with vs code. I do agree, it can't compete with NVDA or JAWS. I'm running the latest built of windows (version 2004) and narrator works here with vs code insider. what I tested with narrator: opening of files and workspace reading-writing source code in editor (used java script) accessing menubar (had little issues due to lack of narrator knowledge)</p> <p>issue that I faced: can't read the status bar (no standard shortcut. however, possible to read when scan mode is enabled) scan mode gets enabled unexpectedly no way to know indentation of line (narrator doesn't have any feature to report indentation with tone or speech. both nvda and JAWS do) feels little laggy ((don't know why) when cursor is moved usingg home or end key, narrator doesn't say anything. </p> <p>all over, narrator iis no where near perfect, but it is usable to some extend. even, I'm typing this reply using narrator and microsoft edge. </p> </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="user"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://github.com/isidorn"><img src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1926584?v=4" />isidorn</a> commented <strong> 4 years ago</strong> </div> <div class="markdown-body"> <p>@adil-s thanks for letting us know, it's good to have this limitations documented. However most of those issues we can not fix on the vscode side. It is up to narrotor to fix this.</p> </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="user"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://github.com/jhomme"><img src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6507685?v=4" />jhomme</a> commented <strong> 4 years ago</strong> </div> <div class="markdown-body"> <p>I'm hoping that because Edge is chrome-based that Narrator will get some love in that direction and also start working with VS Code better.</p> </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="user"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://github.com/isidorn"><img src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1926584?v=4" />isidorn</a> commented <strong> 3 years ago</strong> </div> <div class="markdown-body"> <p>Also menus do not seem to work correctly when narrator is running <a href="https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/116842">https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/116842</a> I will try to contact somebody from the Narrator team regarding this issue.</p> </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="user"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://github.com/isidorn"><img src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1926584?v=4" />isidorn</a> commented <strong> 3 years ago</strong> </div> <div class="markdown-body"> <p>Hello community! I have talked to the Narrator team and they ackowledge some of the issues here. In order:</p> <ul> <li>[ ] No “read status bar” command. </li> <li>[ ] Menu reading issue #116842 (work around is turn off scan mode)</li> <li>[ ] Scan mode not turning on/off as expected</li> <li>[ ] No indentation indication</li> </ul> <p>If you see other Narattor issues with VS Code please write them here so I can forward the issue to the Narrator team. </p> <ul> <li>[x] The original issue that Narrator does not read editor content is fixed in latest Windows.</li> </ul> <p>Thank you very much</p> </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="user"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://github.com/fsteffi"><img src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/24580570?v=4" />fsteffi</a> commented <strong> 3 years ago</strong> </div> <div class="markdown-body"> <p><strong>GitHubTags:</strong>#A11y_VSCode;#A11ySev3;#A11yTCS;#DesktopApp;#Visual Studio Code Client;#Narrator;#WCAG4.2.1;#Win10;#VisualStudioCode-Win32-Apr2021;#A11yMAS;#Linked:Bug28783700;</p> </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="user"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://github.com/isidorn"><img src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1926584?v=4" />isidorn</a> commented <strong> 2 years ago</strong> </div> <div class="markdown-body"> <ul> <li>[ ] Accessibility options popup (<code>alt + F1</code> from Editor) is not read by Narrator.</li> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="page-bar-simple"> </div> <div class="footer"> <ul class="body"> <li>© <script> document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) </script> Githubissues.</li> <li>Githubissues is a development platform for aggregating issues.</li> </ul> </div> <script src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/npm/jquery@3.5.1/dist/jquery.min.js"></script> <script src="/githubissues/assets/js.js"></script> <script src="/githubissues/assets/markdown.js"></script> <script src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/highlightjs/cdn-release@11.4.0/build/highlight.min.js"></script> <script src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/highlightjs/cdn-release@11.4.0/build/languages/go.min.js"></script> <script> hljs.highlightAll(); </script> </body> </html>