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Additional phonetics #5

Closed kishimoto-tsuneyo closed 7 years ago

kishimoto-tsuneyo commented 7 years ago

Here are Japanese kanji phonetic components from Remembering the Kanji that are not present in the phonetics table:

卜刃冊厉弗句㐱争杀丞曳危后赫亜困助貝匊蚤帛阜昏奄炎冥発畏馬扇準芻郭康虚御筑殿爾

Some of these produce groups of only two, but others (like 杀) have several members.

kishimoto-tsuneyo commented 7 years ago

Also, phonetic 専 should be changed to 尃 for these kanji: 博薄縛.

mifunetoshiro commented 7 years ago

I've only included phonetics that have at least 2 members (including itself) that are either jōyō or jinmeiyō. Does this apply for any of these? Could you provide RTK2/3 numbers, or even better, all their members? Thanks.

kishimoto-tsuneyo commented 7 years ago

Thanks—it helps to know the criteria. (I did not see it documented anywhere.) I will review RTK and report back.

How did you collect data to create your phonetic groups? Does 痣 qualify to be in your 士 group?

mifunetoshiro commented 7 years ago

No, because it's a hyōgaiji. If I were to include hyōgaiji, the phonetic data would probably be 2x bigger. As for 尃, you are right, I think I just used 専 for simplicity's sake.

I checked the above myself and I could add 爾, 筑, 隼, 昏, 匊, 丞, 弗, 冊, 卜 and maybe 杀 (should be 木 not 朩) as they meet the criteria.

kishimoto-tsuneyo commented 7 years ago

OK, thanks for clarifying that hyōgaiji are excluded from the phonetics.

I won't check RTK (I don't have time right now) but if there's anything you need me to verify, let me know. I have a lot of kanji reference resources.

For others interested in this topic, this Kanji Koohi forum thread has some interesting research. One commenter mentions that "phonetic components tend to be used more with rarer kanji." Adding phonetics for hyōgaiji in an automated way could be worthwhile.

mifunetoshiro commented 7 years ago

It would, yes, but it would also complicate matters with a huge number of phonetics that would now have multiple possible readings, etc., so I won't be doing it. Anyway, I've added more phonetics now.