Please Fix the textures/rotation of First Person Arm

[BlockAndPixelAge]

Greetings,

I'm new to Minetest, I and a friend tested the games on Minetest and Mods, while we were testing the Skin Mods, Edit Skin, Simple Skins and SkinsDB here, we noticed that the Arm looks strange, while my friend uses a Skin in the 64x32 Format, I use a Skin in the 64x64 Format, and we saw that the Arm in First Person, by the 64x32 Format having the back textures and the inner texture of the Arm showing, like in these Issues mentioned.

https://github.com/minetest-mods/skinsdb/issues/30 https://github.com/minetest-mods/skinsdb/issues/67

But the 64x64 Format having Issues too, it shows the textures of the left Arm in First Person while the back textures shows top left and the outer texture shows top right, instead of the textures of the right Arm. While a Symmetrical Skin in the 64x64 Format like the ones that come with the Mod, make you trink, that it looks correct, by Asymmetrical Skins it shows the Issue then.

None of use knows how to make Models, so we tried using the edit_skin_hand.obj from Edit Skin, and changed the b3d part in the skin_meta_api.lua line 75 to obj. While this works too, it looks like the Arm rotated 90 degree to the left, showing the inner textures of the Arm on top left, while the front texture top right. That is only for the 64x32 Format, so still no front texture top left and outer texture top right. Trying using the same obj file for the 64x64 Format, give you something that doesn't look right.

We downloaded these Skins to play, they might help you too, when you fix these Issues. https://www.planetminecraft.com/skin/oldest-pixel-gun-3d-default-skin-64x32/ https://www.planetminecraft.com/skin/skin-made-by-dobyghost/

So could you PLEASE fix this Issues, this Mod would go from good/best Skin Mod, up to the PERFECT Skin Mod. That's in advance.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

It got labeled... o.o

Question, would it be allowed/okay if this could be asked in the subreddit? Or if someone's asking in the Forum, to speed things up?

[SmallJoker]

@BlockAndPixelAge There's currently no contributor who is A) familiar with the mod to B) fix the model as intended. Perhaps that way someone could be found? It's worth a try at least.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

Stupid question, but it don't hurt asking, only my brain doing gymnastic, and I guess someone with blender/modeling skills could answer this if I'm right or wrong with my guess, but could this Issues be fixed, by adjusting the textures in the b3d file or wherever they are stored for the arm?

I know by looking at a 64x64 texture file, that the texture from the right arm is in the upper half of the texture file.

Good thing reddit allows me, to delete my account afterwards, makes it easier for me to create an account there, for asking purposes. But it's late for me now, so I'm asking tomorrow there, if someone didn't beat me, in asking there first.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

Hi, I created an Account on Reddit to ask. Here is the Link to the Topic. https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/1b7ygyl/looking_for_someone_with_blender_skills_who_could/

Don't know if my wording there are good.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

Are there some ways to message some Minetest Mod Creators directly? While testing some Mods, my friend and I saw in some Mods model folders with b3d file, where we guess the Mod Creators have Blender knowledge/skills, but I don't see here on Github the option to write them directly.

Don't know if it's okay to mention them, but maybe it could help. @jordan4ibanez who blessed this mod with the first person arm in the first place. There would be one more, but if I click on mention here and type the name, there stands (busy) behind the name.

And on Reddit, I guess I need to repost the Topic again in a few days, sorted under "new" it's at the moment the fourth latest post.

If I find an Tutorial, would it be okay to link it here?

[bell07]

@BlockAndPixelAge , this is the right place to contact mod maintainer and creators. Everyone involved can read along, and maybe responisibilites are changed.

Long time ago I forked u_skins mod and did lot of enhancements and rewrites .. I implemented the First-person hand also. But in the meantime I am not active for minetest anymore.

I do not have blender skills, just got the files from other projects:

The player model (if I remember right) I got from https://github.com/stujones11/minetest-models/tree/master/character/3d_armor/mt_0.5.0-dev/multiskin_branch to support 1.8er skins

The hand model I used from https://github.com/jordan4ibanez/newhand

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@bell07

Thanks for the response.

So that means, we now have to play the waiting game, while I maybe renew/repost the topic I opened on the subreddit every one or two weeks, until someone shows up, who could fix the arm textures in first person. The Skins looking perfectly fine in 3rd Person View, just to mention it, only the arms in first person.

But in the end, it doesn't change that this is the best Skin Mod we encountered so far, which will turn to perfect, when the first person arm textures for 64x32 and 64x64 format, finally get fixed.

And thanks for the Mods you created, when you were active.

[jordan4ibanez]

It sounds like we have a new maintainer on the horizon

[jordan4ibanez]

If you found a way to fix it, fire up that pr machine immediately and bring this mod into this decade

[BlockAndPixelAge]

To see the legend him/herself, who made the First Person Arm with newhand possible, writing here under this Issue.

Could it be, that me @ you, did this?

[APercy]

I never was involved with this mod, I don't understand why I was tagged here...

[BlockAndPixelAge]

Sorry, were looking who might have Blender Skills, based on the Mods with b3d Models.

And I'm new to Github, so directly knowing that mentioning someone would notify them too, I didn't thought about that. In that case, I'm sorry.

[APercy]

okay, no problem, I was just confused, I was first trying to find if any of my mods had any conflict with it :)

[BlockAndPixelAge]

If I find conflicts, I will post an Issue then. ;)

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@jordan4ibanez

It sounds like we have a new maintainer on the horizon

Sometimes I "like" my lack of reading comprehension, combined with english not being my 1st language, but I guess I understand this comment now. -.- Correct me if I'm wrong.

But could it be, that you thought my comment, where I tagged you and Apercy (I edited that comment), means, that Apercy would be the new maintainer on the horizon. If yes, sorry that my wording gave the wrong impression. -.-

Otherwise, I look at an tutorial, with adding textures to an Object, but I don't understand it and what I miss in the video is, how to rotate the textures. I don't know if this could help with the First Person Hand Issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLGWE335J28

[BlockAndPixelAge]

Two more Blender Videos, with Axis Rotation this time. Hope these, now 3, Videos can help with fixing this Issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ee4qkMf20E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DbqvMOo_3s

[Lemente]

I tried fixing the 3d models but I don't know how to properly export to b3d

you can find them here: https://github.com/Lemente/minetest-assets/tree/master/from-minetest-mods

[BlockAndPixelAge]

Wait I test them RIGHT now.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente Still there the problem. :(

What about the b3d files? But keeping the blend files, would still be a good idea, just in case.

But still, thanks for trying.

Edit: Don't know how to export b3d, too. But isn't it possible to open b3d in Blender too?

And to everyone here, sorry that I'm not that much of a help, regarding this Issue here.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@APercy Sorry for tagging you again.

Do you know how to export to b3d?

@Lemente Did a fast google search, don't know if this can help. https://wiki.minetest.net/Using_Blender https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/fraf3y/cant_export_from_from_blender_to_b3d_x_or_ms3d/ https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16039

[NathanSalapat]

I downloaded the two hand files from lemente and exported them as .b3d. I'm not sure if this will fix anything, but you can try them out. skinsdb_hands.zip

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente Thanks to @NathanSalapat exporting it to b3d, I tested it, it's CLOSE, at the moment it's inner texture are top left and front texture top right, for both arms and in the 64x64 format it's finally the correct arm that is shown texture wise.

One more 90 degree rotate to the left, please, for both skinsdb_hand.b3d and skinsdb_hand_18.b3d, so that the front texture is top left and outer texture top right, and it's done. :D (Is rotating to the left, called counterclockwise?) One thing, that I notice only now, that I need to mention in this 7th Edit of this post is.... @Lemente are you a Magician, you made it even possible for the second Skin Layer to be shown in First Person. More detailed Skins incoming. :D

Keeping the current blend files as backup, just in case, if something happens. First picture 64x32 format, second 64x64 format, Skins used, the ones in the starting post. Files are from Lemente (blend) and Nathan (b3d).

Nathan, how did you exported it to b3d, or could we tag you again, for exporting? Just asking in advance.

[Lemente]

So you would expect to see the back of the hand, as if "ready to punch"?

To me it makes more sense to have it "ready to old a pickaxe".

I'm not sure if I will make an alternative version, unless there is interest in implementing it in the mod as an option. Though it would probably make more sense to edit the skin to your liking.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente Well yes, at the moment it is more, ready for uppercut, but "ready to punch" looks more natural, if I think about it, if I run in reallife, I see the back of my hand more, than the inside. And I tried to run, with Arms so that I don't see the back of my Hand, and that looked, well.

Well if editing skin to my liking, would end up with pickaxe sticking out of the back of my hand in 3rd person (using Wield3d).

And I thought at least to a point, "Wouldn't it be possible, to add an option for switching between ready to punch and ready for pickaxe", when I thought about a Wolverine Skin, thanks to the 2nd layer now. But I don't know how much coding work it is for such an option/setting. Well I understand the Idea of ready for holding pickaxe, every Item like Sticks or Tools fitting the direction, how it is now.

Adding a extra folder, named something like "alternative arms", having both "ready to punch" and "ready for pickaxe" type of arms, could work too. Few mods and one texture pack, handle alternatives like this too.

So it would really be nice for the ready to punch version for both 64x32 and 64x64 formats, while keeping the ready for pickaxe version, for manual switching, so only one more time, please.

[NathanSalapat]

I used Blender 3.6.1, but I think any 3.x.x versions should work with this script, https://github.com/GreenXenith/io_scene_b3d I haven't tested with Blender 4.x.x yet, so can't offer any advice there.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@NathanSalapat Good to know.

Little side question, what do you think of two sets of Hands, one like in the Picture above, and one where we see the back of the hand top right?

[NathanSalapat]

Honestly I just saw the post about this on Reddit and thought I could export some b3d models for y'all. You could probably flip the texture based on if the player is wielding an item or not, but I have not looked at the code at all to see how that would be implemented.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@NathanSalapat

But what if it's not about code, but just the arm in first person, changing them by switching the arm model files (b3d+blend) in the Model Folder, from, let's say Edit Skin Style (or ready for holding pickaxe how Lemente called it) how you see it above to MC Style (or ready to punch).

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente

Sorry Lemente, to ask again, there is still an Issue, in First Person it looks like the Bottom part of the arm, which is normally not viewable in First Person having a little different rotation or strange mirroring. Other sides from the Arm reflect the position of the pixels in 1st and 3rd Person perfectly, so there is no Issue, only the bottom part of the Arm.

Because of this, I say okay for the ready for holding pickaxe (Edit Skin Style), instead of the back of the hand view in first person, if this Issue gets fixed, please. And if there is already the "see back of hand" Version in the work, well that's now inconvenient, but would maybe having the same Issue. -_-

And I noticed this only today, when I wanted to make a new Skin, instead of yesterday. -.- Tried using Blender in the past few days too, after posting this Issue, not understanding how it actually works, otherwise I could help a lot better. -_- Good thing at least is, that the top of the arm (shoulder) can't be seen in First Person.

[Lemente]

Thanks for testing and clearly illustrating the issue!

I will look into it

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente Now in the end, I'm glad with how the arm is (ready for holding tools) instead of "see the back of the hand", otherwise it would be harder to notice this Issue. Well it takes some time, getting used to this angle, but it looks more healthy, then the previous ones, that were the reason to open this general Issue in the first place. :D

Even if there is one thing we will never know, that is the shoulder which we don't see in First Person, because without punching you see only 1/2 of the arm and with punching only roughly 2/3 of the arm. Means we will never know if the shoulder/top of the arm having the same Issue or not as the bottom.

I don't know how much work this actually is, so I'm gradeful for everyone who is able to fix this Issue here.

Thanks for testing and clearly illustrating the issue!

Well, english isn't my first language, so I didn't know if I'm explaining it good, or making it harder to understand.

Now I'm imaging, how other SkinsDB user will react to the arm? If no more Issues appearing.

[Lemente]

I remade the arm with the overlay, fixed the rotation. Since the "flat" overlay looked a bit weird I decided to extrude each pixel instead. And I added a 0.01 displace on the base arm to avoid z_fighting.

Not sure if that's too much of a stylistic choice for this mod. It also means the hand is now 2700 tris.

I am going it in a fork, with an alternative 3d model with 3d overlay. https://github.com/Lemente/skinsdb

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente Okay, I will test it.... in 16 hours with my own Skins, because right now, I'm on a device, where I can't really use Minetest. But from what I see in the picture right now, the Arm looks awesome and why am I getting now Ideas for Mecha Skins. :D

Is this Arm "Edit Skin Style" (pickaxe ready) or "seeing back of the hand" (punch ready)? And looking in the Model Folder, I don't know if I survive this, but I will let me surprise. :D

Edit: Something came to my mind, after seeing the Model Folder, but I will see it tomorrow, how good it works with 3d Armor Flyswim and it's custom animation?

[Lemente]

• it is the "pickaxe" hand
• I tested it with this gundam skin https://www.planetminecraft.com/skin/gundam-rx-78-2-6218735/
• flyswim will replace this 3d model with it's own 3d model that contains more animation. I might update it to. Or maybe I'll simply make a mod that depends on both and replaces their models with mine.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente A what if question, if you would make a mod that depends on both, would that mean the SkinsDB mod alone would use the current model instead of your overhauled ones, that are in your fork?

And looked on the ContentDB, how many Mods/Games depend/optional depend on SkinsDB, around 14 to 18. Well I only use flyswim besides SkinsDB, which makes it only 2 Mods, but that still hurts.

What would be easier, updating flyswim or making an "addon" mod that depends on both (optional)? But updating flyswim could maybe "break" compatibility with 3d Armor, Simple Skins and Clothing. -_-

Well I test it tomorrow.

[Lemente]

Well, that's exactly what I am wondering about too.

And honestly it seems like the answer is that it is a mess, and as a 3d artist I don't want to touch it.

[Lemente]

I'm no help at all. -_-

I wouldn't have fixed these issues if you had not opened an issue and followed through by thoroughly testing and documenting the 3d models and the new issues! You did at least half the work.

By the way, the hand should be fixed now! I'm uploading it in a few minutes on my fork

Edit: I just realized there is an issue with the armor layer

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente Could you explain it, what you mean with Issue with the Armor layer? In 3rd Person all the Skins looking like they should (disclaimer didn't tested your newest fix), like the Gundam Skin you used for testing, or the Barbatos Lupus and Rex Skins from KiraX on planetminecraft. Old SkinsDB Version that is downloadable on ContentDB shows the Skins like in the preview on planetminecraft, your fork before your now update showed the Skins in 3rd Person correct, like in the planetmc preview, too, so what Issue do you mean? Like I mention in the ( ) didn't test your now updated fix. But I test it the next time, when I have time, don't know if tomorrow or the day after.

I just hope that I don't find ANY MORE Issues, the next time I test it. -.- I mean, I literally keep you busy, and demand a lot from you, while I guess everyone here wants this Issue, and the 2 mentioned Issues in the starting comment, to be finally done. And I wanna be honest, with looking into the texture folder and seeing the test skin, I'm worried that I need to re-adjust the textures on all my 6 Skins. (I must say, even if I'm not good at making Skins, at the moment I'm worried.) Hope that in the end, I was worried for no reason, and that there is no re-adjusting of textures, I mean, at the moment I didn't tested it.

And in the model folder, only the b3d files for model and 1.8 Arm are updated. Aren't blend files, the files that get exported into b3d? Just wondering, because I see the 3 week standing behind the model (apply_modifiers), and hand_18 blend files.

When you tested it, did you only used the test Skin, or some other Skins with overlays (Armor Layer), too?

How many times do I want to edit this comment. -.-

And one more thing, when I tested it 2 weeks ago, there was one thing I didn't mentioned, after I remembered your comment, when it was about the other mods depending(optional) on SkinsDB, and it has to do with 3d Armor and Equippable Accessories. The 3d overlay gone a little bit over/through the Armors of both mods, even though it only the torso, arm and legs, where thats the case. When I saw the new Model, and than tested it with both mods, and saw what I mentioned right now, I as an user only, thought "This is in my eyes an high quality model, mentioning this would literally force Lemente to rework the model again, or making the 3d layer thinner", so I didn't mentioned this, but I thought too "but making the 3d layer thinner, how much would someone notice the 3d overlay.", and now seeing you mentioning Issue with the armor layer, I must say, I regret it now, that I didn't mentioned it. But maybe the Issue you noticed with the armor layer, fixed that too. And again, sorry that I didn't mentioned the Armor stuff before. -A-

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente So I tested again, no Issue that I see regarding the overlay in case of rotation. Or in other words, the Issues with the First Person Arm for both formats 64x32 and 64x64 is finally done. At least I don't see any Issues with the 1st Person Arm.

One Issue regarding the Model however is, I can use 3d Armor, but you don't see the Armor at all in 3rd Person. But if you use flyswim or any other mod that still uses the old model, which reverts the Model, than you see the Armor in 3rd Person. Tried even your previous Model in the 3d Armor model folder, and the now current one.

And using an blend reader, the model looks for me like the old skinsdb model and your previous model without the 2 high node and another model, that is displayed to the other side of the main model. So here I totally don't know what happened here, that the Armor isn't displayed at all in 3rd Person.

Edit: I just realized there is an issue with the armor layer

But based on your Edit comment, could it be that you at least know of this 3d Armor Issue. I interpreted it as the Overlay of the Model. Just want to mention that, in case you are trying to fix the armor layer Issue (if you meant 3d Armor) at the moment, the 3d overlay gone a little bit over/through the Armors of 3d Armor, even though it only the torso, arm and legs, where thats the case with your previous Model from before. Just don't push the mentioned overlays further into the mentioned body parts, because the Overlay in general is totally okay how it is now. Or in other words, the armor layer (If it's about 3d Armor) needs to fit the new model, not the other way.

Otherwise I don't see anymore Issue here at all, except the armor layer for 3d Armor, so that Armor is displayed again in 3rd Person, otherwise the Model is perfect, how it is.

Must say, it feels so strange, using Skins with the old Model, after using the new Model. :D Actually I need to mention one more thing, I like the design choice in case how the overlay behaves, when using a few pixels on the corner/edges of an Body Part like Arm or Head.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente

Is it possible, to fix the armor layer, while leaving the Main Body and the 3D Overlay completly alone? I mean, like no changes on the Main Body (Model) and the 3D Overlay at all, while having the armor layer. (Current Model with just a fixed Armor Layer)

The Model is, while missing the armor layer, perfect.

[Lemente]

In case you're asking what I mean by design choice at the end of my last comment. Made a picture and I must say, I like how the Overlay now is, with the Overlay going a little bit into the Skin. :D

I must admit I did not realize it would look like this. I thought it would only be visible if the first layer was transparent. I guess it will stay like this for now.

Is it possible, to fix the armor layer, while leaving the Main Body and the 3D Overlay completly alone?

The current issue is that when I add the armor layer, it breaks the whole model, and I have no idea why. It is related to vertex groups I believe. I don't currently have the time to fix this. Maybe in a few weeks.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente

I must admit I did not realize it would look like this. I thought it would only be visible if the first layer was transparent. I guess it will stay like this for now.

So it was unintentionally. Well things can happen in an surprising way. But maybe it has something to with how the Minetest Engine works, because when I was using a Skin with sunglasses that are a little bit transparent on the overlay, they were not transparent, when the transparency was closer to 100%, and like not there when the transparency was closer to 0% maybe below 50%. Otherwise how often would someone make a Skin that uses a complete different color on the overlay, compared to the color on the Skin directly. Well okay, I forgot here that "normally" the Skins have a flat overlay in mind, not a 3d one. :D

I mean in the begin I asked myself, if this was a normal behavior or not, so I didn't know if I should mention this as an Issue or not. But based on what kind of Skin is used, this works surprisingly well.

I need to mention, and it only happened one time, that I was able to see the inside of the player model, and that's when I noticed, that the overlay is one pixel thick, compared to pixels on the skin.

The current issue is that when I add the armor layer, it breaks the whole model, and I have no idea why. It is related to vertex groups I believe. I don't currently have the time to fix this. Maybe in a few weeks.

Okay, would it be maybe possible to do a pull request now, while keeping the outdated Model as a band aid and putting an "_old" at the end of the name. While at the same time opening a new Issue with the Armor Layer Issue, and mention Mods like flyswim or x_bows that revert the Model back, which allows that the Armor is displayed again. At the same time maybe some other people that have Blender Skills take notice of this, and could help you too, in this quest of fixing the Armor Layer.

And maybe that way, getting feedback from other users too, not just from me. I mean, I can only say how it is for me, and have the feeling that my feedback goes now more in the subjective direction, instead of a objective one.

Or what do you think about this, with pull request now, getting maybe more Blender User that could help with the Armor Layer Issue and feedback from other people too and not just my feedback alone? .

And one more thing, while testing I forgot the whole time (this was NOT on purpose) to test it with the clothing Mod, and can say it works with it, while the clothes are now 3d instead of a flat texture, just using a 64x32/1.0 Format Skin, which is not using the new Model and having the flat head overlay, making it look a little bit strange at the corner/edges, when wearing one of the head pieces from the clothing Mod. But that Mod has some Issue itself, like crashing if I don't disable the cloth recipes in the settings, so I would open an Issue there. I would even convert the clothing Mod Skins to 1.8.

Did I forgot something... beside that sentences are somehow all over the place. -.- No that's it.

[Lemente]

I don't think my model with the 3d overlay should replace the original one, because of how much geometry it adds, and because it doesn't support armors anymore.

I think it should either be a fork of the mod, or implemented as an alternative model.

The hand with the 3d overlay and fixed UV could replace the original one though.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@Lemente Well adding it as an alternative Model (.b3d only), with "_alternative" in the name, in a folder called alternative or something like this could work too. But at the same time it would increase the size of the Mod, a little bit over 4MB. Maybe after the pull request, adding the Model in a Zip file, to reduce the file size a little bit. And if it's a fork, well it can be found on your Git.

Otherwise, because I don't find anymore Issues (please no more, I'm paranoid, because I found stuff, like the 1st Person overlay rotation before and after the first model update.), could we say, this Issue is finally done, and ready for pull request? (skinsdb_hand (.b3d & .blend) & skinsdb_hand_18 (.b3d & .blend)) If yes, this Issue can be closed and the 2 mentioned in the starting comment maybe too.

Otherwise, thank you very much for fixing the Issue with the First Person Arm for the 1.0 and 1.8 Skin format, and giving even 1 new Model, which looks awesome. ;)

[BlockAndPixelAge]

After 4 weeks still no more Issues.

Would it be possible to do a pull request with the "skinsdb_hand.b3d/.blend" and "skinsdb_hand_18.b3d/.blend" for now first, so that this Issue can be closed.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

Sorry to make another comment, but is it possible to, at least, doing a pull request with the "skinsdb_hand.b3d/.blend" and "skinsdb_hand_18.b3d/.blend", please.

[SmallJoker]

@BlockAndPixelAge The time you've spent writing those requests would've sufficed to learn the basics of Blender to fix up the issue yourself. Minetest mods are generally written by volunteers, so please do not expect anything to happen upon requests. They may decide on their spent time on their own. Thank you for your understanding.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

@SmallJoker Okay, I understand.

Just want to mention, I fail even at the basics of Blender (yes with me, you have actually someone incapable of Blender), otherwise I could help a lot better, instead of only pointing at stuff. :(

Then maybe I delete the last comment.

[BlockAndPixelAge]

I see that on ContentDB now, that the Mod pages can have release notes. I only have one favor, when this mod gets updated with the fix here, thanks to Lemente. ;)

I don't want to be mentioned in the release notes, for bringing this Issue up.

That's all.