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minetest-whynot / whynot-game

Minetest game in minetest mods collection style
GNU General Public License v3.0
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Nether + Nether mobs #23

Open bell07 opened 4 years ago

bell07 commented 4 years ago

Nether (https://github.com/Treer/nether) Nether mobs (https://github.com/rael5/minetest-nether-monsters) Proposed in https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=377794#p377794

Also living nether? https://content.minetest.net/packages/Liil/livingnether/ and https://github.com/Skandarella/livingnether

bell07 commented 4 years ago

Nether is too Minecraft-like. They are some other mods that can take over the underground. Caverealms https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9522 for example. The issue is if we add a mod to the game it is not possible anymore to remove and replace it because of compatibility to running worlds.

I think it is better to keep the game as is: Plain Minetest Game in underground. Like for surface biomes, keep the biomes/dimensions minimal to allow the user or server owner to choose and enhance his worlds for any taste.

bell07 commented 4 years ago

First attempt show me the bug:

ERROR[Main]: generateImage(): Could not load image "nether:lava_source" while building texture; Creating a dummy image

The quality needs to be checked in detail ...

dacmot commented 2 years ago

The nether mod has seen a lot of improvements in the past couple of years and is still actively maintained. The main repository is https://github.com/minetest-mods/nether.

dacmot commented 2 years ago

You make good points about the nether being too Minecraft-like, and caverealms being a nice alternative. I've never played minecraft so for me it felt like a cool underground. From what I've tried of caverealms, it looks pretty cool too.

I guess for me it comes back to https://github.com/minetest-whynot/whynot-game/issues/60. What I like about those mods is they provide additional gameplay by creating more goals to reach, and new places to explore. Currently, past -1200 depth where diamonds are, there are no incentives to keep digging. Nothing changes anymore; it's just more rock, same minerals, same caverns, interspersed with the odd lava or water lake.

From an exploration perspective, I don't see why we couldn't have both. We could put the nether between -25000 and -32768, and caverealms between -1500 and -25000. Since Nether can be reached using an obsidian portal, it doesn't matter exactly what depth it's at. From what I can tell, instructions for building portals should be in books found in dungeon chests. Similarly for reaching the floating islands.

I do understand the backwards compatibility argument. But realistically speaking, how often do we remove mods, especially well maintained ones? And comparatively, how many mods change and break compatibility with their own older version (MTG player_api!)?

bell07 commented 2 years ago

Tried shortly. Nether: Some new decorative nodes. Some new tools (untested if balanced). No more exiting then default caves. Strange recipe image but ok at all. If we decide to add mapgen mods, this one is ok

nether-mobs: The dragon is oversized. I did not found cave with enough space (v6 map).

dacmot commented 2 years ago

From what I read, the mining tools (pick axe and shovel) are much more resistant to mining netherrack. To be honest, mining netherrack is a bit of a pain so it's a welcome addition. A LVL diamond pick axe wears done fast.

Not sure what the point of the nether sword and axe are. If they are simply more powerful than diamond counter parts... reaching the nether early make the diamond set obsolete.

The nether ore recipe is strange indeed...

I agree about the mobs, though I've tried generating maps many times using various generators (v7, v6, carpathan and valleys) and I always ended up in very large caves.

As for the mobs, I recently found this other mod with some awesome, interesting, new, not minecraft-specific nether mobs: https://content.minetest.net/packages/Liil/livingnether/ and https://github.com/Skandarella/livingnether. I much prefer it to nether-mobs.

Lazerbeak12345 commented 2 years ago

Looks like balancing is the blocker here...

Lazerbeak12345 commented 2 years ago

added what seem to be the exact blocking points to the OP

Lazerbeak12345 commented 2 years ago

Here's a rule-by-rule review of the nether mod (only): the other mods will be reviewed in later comments.

This ensures that we didn't miss any rule, and that this issue matches the format of the other mod requests. To ensure deduplication, I'll be siting which comments each decision came from.

Request

This is the URL for the mod I would like to be added:

https://github.com/Treer/nether (source: https://github.com/minetest-whynot/whynot-game/issues/23#issue-661504848)

or https://github.com/minetest-mods/nether (source: https://github.com/minetest-whynot/whynot-game/issues/23#issuecomment-1045210275)

My opinion on how it fits with the whynot rules:

Refer to the Whynot Readme for full rule descriptions/reasons.

  1. In what ways might this mod take over the game?
  2. When could this mod be a strain on the server when no players are using the mod?
    • As with most mob-adding mods, this would just mean when a player is unaware of the mob nearby. I would assume that mobs despawn. (UNTESTED)
  3. When does this mod destroy player's work?
    • Some mobs may destroy things. (UNTESTED)
  4. Have you looked at the code? If so, what stood out as things that might need fixing?
    • No. THIS NEEDS DONE
  5. In what way might this mod be reduced to be more simple (as in "Keep it Simple Stupid") (ex: "the foobar mod could be made more simple by splitting into two mods, foo and bar")
    • UNKNOWN
  6. Is this mod survival freindly? What items that it provides that should be craftable/obtainable, but arent?
  7. When does this mod feel like cheating?
  8. Does this mod use the software "git" for version control? (note: we are asking about git. Github, Gitlab, notabug and hundreds of other git providers exist but are not specificly needed, although these do qualify).
    • yes
  9. Upon testing this mod, what errors, odd behavior, or other incompatibilities were noticed?

Other comments

Also removed bullets from OP since they are useless with this better comment present.

Lazerbeak12345 commented 2 years ago

Looks like there's some difference in wording blurring lines between rules 6 and 7. Probably it'd be best to just use the actual rule instead. (my bad)

Lazerbeak12345 commented 2 years ago

Just a note, the nether mod does have some odd behavior when caverealms is also enabled.

screenshot_20220815_185924

Lazerbeak12345 commented 2 years ago

Also there are some no-texture blocks. screenshot_20220815_190212

I'm using the most recently-updated version of nether on contentdb in these screenshots, the one by PLZAdam at https://github.com/minetest-mods/nether

dacmot commented 2 years ago

Just a note, the nether mod does have some odd behavior when caverealms is also enabled.

I would have expected as much. We would need to make sure their depths don't overlap.

dacmot commented 2 years ago

Also there are some no-texture blocks.

I think this is this bug.

Lazerbeak12345 commented 2 years ago

more digging, as it turns out, there are two nether codebases. They are not derived from oneanother, though I like the PLZAdam one more (even though there's feature creep involving portals). They are a rare example of mods having the same name but no API compatibility whatsoever.

dacmot commented 2 years ago

Interesting. I never looked at hybriddog's nether

Lazerbeak12345 commented 1 year ago

Should be noted that https://github.com/GreenDirkfried/minetest-nether-monsters fixes a lot of issues that the upstream nether-monsters project had. Upstream is unmaintained.