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Minetest Game - A lightweight and well-maintained base for modding [https://github.com/minetest/minetest/]
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Buckets should not run out of water in creative #1464

Closed tobyplowy closed 7 years ago

tobyplowy commented 7 years ago

The title says it all, Buckets should not Run Out Of Water in Creative (i tested minetest with a couple of children and they all Use the Buckets and dount understand How to get Infinite water so they just filled up their inventory with water buckets it was quite funny but I don't really blame them (pardon my language but) but for God's sake you're in creative mode everything needs to be infinite (I know one of the first comments Will Be There is a water source Block also there will be a couple people saying theres mods for this I know so Please Don't) that's it also this description is way too long for what I'm asking for XD

C1ffisme commented 7 years ago

That's what water/lava sources are for.

(i tested minetest with a couple of children and they...

Are probably used to Minecraft.

I wouldn't mind replacing the water sources with Minecraft's more sensible behaviour, though. Even in creative mode, carrying blocks of water seems a bit debug-ish.

Napiophelios commented 7 years ago

Funny, I can't stand the infinite supply of everything in creative. Its really annoying when placing doors and boats and beds.

You can nab anything from the inventory at anytime in creative, I don't understand the desire for this infinite supply behaviour.

If I place a boat it should be gone from my hand, If I need another just open the inventory...voila

tobyplowy commented 7 years ago

@C1ffisme yes they are, at least only two of them the others are completely new to mintest and have never played Minecraft

tobyplowy commented 7 years ago

@Napiophelios

Funny, I can't stand the infinite supply of everything in creative.

Why are you in creative mode in the first place then why not survival XD

If I place a boat it should be gone from my hand, If I need another just open the inventory...voila

That's not How creative mode shuld work that ruins The workflow of building

Napiophelios commented 7 years ago

I think you are missing my point. creative mode already gives you an infinite supply of whatever you want; why does the stack in my hand need to be infinite, if I can just get more from inventory as needed.

Its just my opinion, I am not saying its wrong I just don't like it.

sofar commented 7 years ago

I think you are missing my point. creative mode already gives you an infinite supply of whatever you want; why does the stack in my hand need to be infinite

I disagree

Building a water feature in creative is terribly unpleasant as it is right now. I constantly have to open my inventory to get more water buckets, and then the inventory is flooded with empty buckets.

It's just terrible.

tobyplowy commented 7 years ago

@sofar true

paramat commented 7 years ago

Sofar, just place water source nodes.

tobyplowy commented 7 years ago

@paramat Yes I know I use water blocks but It Would Be More logical to be able to use brackets, Why are they not Infinite You're in Creative (also water source blocks look a bit strange to use The Minecraft players and noobs will find it more logical to use buckets and it looks better in my opinion)

NathanSalapat commented 7 years ago

I know most tools don't take damage in creative, should be a relatively trivial code change, just a check for if the game is in creative mode, and then returning a full bucket rather than an empty.

Desour commented 7 years ago

but then also please do the same with air filled bucket, you could place air nodes to delete fluids but if buckets with fluids dont get empty, buckets with gas shouldnt do neither

paramat commented 7 years ago

The water node is usable and is intended for infinite water. Creative infinite water buckets are exactly that, infinite water buckets does not equal infinite water, each bucket acts as a normal bucket, it empties and returns an empty bucket, it makes sense. :-1:

tobyplowy commented 7 years ago

@paramat Why would you need to empty out a bucket in creative mode :/

NathanSalapat commented 7 years ago

@tobyplowy you realize of course that the exact same question can be asked in regards to why you'd need a full bucket in creative. Make a mod that uses your idea if you think it is so useful. I'd do it myself if I had more time, might try over this extended weekend.

tobyplowy commented 7 years ago

@NathanSalapat because of inconsistencies You're in Creative Why is it not Infinite?

paramat commented 7 years ago

Why would you need to empty out a bucket in creative mode

You don't need to, but this is irrelevant. Creative provides an infinite number of items, each of which acts as normal, so buckets empty. Use the source nodes for infinite water. Only use the buckets for, for example, filling up a machine which uses them for some purpose. Changing bucket behaviour in creative is unnecessary extra code.

This request only arises because water buckets are on the first page of creative, so players wrongly think these are the source of infinite water.

tobyplowy commented 7 years ago

@paramat I have already see where this is going you disapprove the idea so it's a no (I guess it is what you call a mod thing >:)

Ferk commented 7 years ago

Why would you need to empty out a bucket in creative mode

@tobyplowy you need an empty bucket to remove liquid nodes cleanly (without replacing with other nodes then removing), whereas you don't need a full bucket to place a liquid node cleanly.

Currently you can remove a water node if after picking it in the bucket you empty the bucket back into some other water source (which would drain your water without really creating a new water node). If your suggestion was implemented this would be no longer possible.

You could say that you also want empty buckets to never get filled in creative when used, and while this would be more reasonable I would still not recommend it if you really want to keep consistency across mods. Because the bucket mod from MTG cannot ensure this will work for other mods that fill up (or empty) buckets in unconventional ways (milking cows? filling machines?). This could be done nicely, though, if there was an API to clear/empty the bucket in the bucket mod that was used by other mods.

But it would probably feel strange for people used to survival if the buckets never change state, imho. Maybe for Minecraft users it would feel strange anything different than Minecraft (and non-fillable buckets in creative would already be strange for them), but that doesn't mean we have to implement every Minecraft quirk whether it makes sense or not.

because of inconsistencies You're in Creative Why is it not Infinite?

According to that logic you could also argue that picking up an item from a chest should never remove the item from the chest inventory if you are in creative. You could think of you placing something from your bucket to the world the same as when you place something from your chest to your inventory.

The bucket is an item that completely switches to a different state when used. There's no other item in MTG that does this, so I don't think there's much inconsistency. The tools losing durability are not comparable, buckets already never break, they are just a mean to store a node, in a way it's like a wielded chest for liquids with only 1 node capacity.

paramat commented 7 years ago

you disapprove the idea so it's a no

Other devs may support your idea though, i don't make the final decisions in MTGame.

rubenwardy commented 7 years ago

I'm not keen on this, it makes the bucket pointless. I agree with @Ferk in terms of cleaning up water

tobyplowy commented 7 years ago

@rubenwardy I don't understand Why you have to empty a bucket in Creative if you want an empty bucket You just take it from the inventory

And the water source block looks really crappy like someone was too Lazy to program a proper mechanic oh wait

juhdanad commented 7 years ago

I think infinite empty bucket would be a great help in removing liquids. This is (mostly) why I support infinite buckets.

paramat commented 7 years ago

I don't understand Why you have to empty a bucket in Creative if you want an empty bucket You just take it from the inventory

Just because there is an empty bucket does not mean that the full buckets should have infinite liquids. Re-read https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1464#issuecomment-268746054

We could have a separate issue for infinitely empty bucket, that seems more reasonable (but i don't support it).

paramat commented 7 years ago

@sfan5 @Ekdohibs @ShadowNinja any opinions?

Fixer-007 commented 7 years ago

Just use water source in creative instead of bucket

numberZero commented 7 years ago

That might be an option that some people would like. But I don’t consider it necessary. Moreover, buckets are used in machines that could be broken by such change. So, I suggest removing full buckets from creative inventory in favor of liquid sources. And, well, liquid removal tool would be nice to have too, it might be even craftable (bucket+mese+sand?)

paramat commented 7 years ago

Full buckets are needed in creative inventory, there may be crafting recipes that use them or a machine that uses them in large numbers. Players will soon learn to use the sources instead. I feel this can be closed now.