Increase TNT cost

[rubenwardy]

Currently TNT costs:

• 1x Coal
• 1x Gravel
• 4x Wood

@paramat

Spawned from https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1474#issuecomment-269530835

[tobyplowy]

@rubenwardy +1 totally agree!

[Desour]

Maybe make the normal recipe, which is now for TNT, make little TNT, which has a radius of 0, then craft some of these together to one real TNT? The small TNT should have a little nodebox. It would be useful to make damage to players without destroying everything.

[rubenwardy]

little TNT

It could be a TNT stick, and you then use multiple sticks to make a bomb

[Desour]

Maybe add to craft recipe string?

[Desour]

So, let every TNT stick cost 3 gunpowder (and 1 cotton string), and replace at the current TNT recipe the gunpowder with the TNT sticks. => increase threefold the costs idea for TNT stick: p=paper g=gunpowder

pgp
pgp
pgp

Then replace at current TNT recipe the wood with cotton? And make the TNT sticks explode instantly? It would need much paper. :confused:

[paramat]

I agree TNT needs to be more expensive. Please move TNT stick to a new issue (although i don't see a need, the TNT API allows defining low-power TNT already).

[rubenwardy]

I would personally prefer it to just be a craft item, rather than an explosive item, as I also don't see the need

[sofar]

I don't think we need more items, that seems like a mod thing. So I'm not in favor of adding a 'tnt stick'.

[C1ffisme]

@sofar @rubenwardy Instead of the TNT stick being a node, what if you could throw it? (To balance it, it wouldn't destroy nodes, but it would harm entities.)

@DS-Minetest I don't think cotton should be required for TNT, that seems a little overboard, considering cotton already requires that you find a jungle biome, which (depending on your world and mapgen type) may not be the easiest biome to find.

[sofar]

@C1ffisme minetest_game has no entities, so adding a stick that can be thrown to nothing would make no sense.

[Desour]

@sofar minetest_game has players which are entities.

[sofar]

Ha!, yes, they indeed are. Obviously PvP isn't high on my radar :)

[sofar]

Way too powerful IMHO to do that though, you could seriously spawnkill players if you gain flying privs and throw explosives at /spawn.

[C1ffisme]

@sofar PVP was my intention. Considering that we already have swords which also serve little purpose besides PVP, I thought that this could also fit in.

Way too powerful IMHO to do that though, you could seriously spawnkill players if you gain flying privs and throw explosives at /spawn.

It wouldn't have to do that much damage, enough to be worth it, but definitely not insta-kill. And how did you gain flying privs if you were the kind of person who spawn-kills?

[paramat]

Please discuss TNT sticks in a new issue, although note the idea has 3 dev disapprovals.

[C1ffisme]

@paramat Currently working on a pull...

[numberZero]

how did you gain flying privs if you were the kind of person who spawn-kills?

Well, some servers have no anti-cheat... :blush: But I never spawn-kill =) Anyway, I’m for the TNT sticks, but not as throwable items. Throwing should be kept in a complete mod, either in MT_game or outside it. They should be either mere craftitems (just like the paper itself), or small explosives e.g. with radius of 1 (obsidian mining?), maybe falling.

[C1ffisme]

They should be either mere craftitems (just like the paper itself)

As I've explained in another issue, I do have some issues with items purely dedicated to crafting, or worse, purely dedicated to only one crafting recipe.

[paramat]

Gunpowder has become less expensive, and TNT takes more gunpowder https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/f07c4dcd839c5be09e83cae47126927bb86cb676 so cost is the same. I agree it should be more expensive, 1 coal lump to 1 TNT is too cheap. How about a TNT stick craftitem that requires multiple (3?) gunpowder, then TNT is crafted from 9 sticks? The sticks only being a step in crafting, not individually usable. 1 TNT = 3 x 9 = 27 gunpowder = 5.4 coal lumps.

[C1ffisme]

Mumbles something about adding sulfur and saltpeter to the game.

@paramat

How about a TNT stick craftitem that requires multiple (3?) gunpowder, then TNT is crafted from 9 sticks? The sticks only being a step in crafting, not individually usable.

Is there a use for the TNT sticks besides TNT itself? If there isn't, then it doesn't need to exist.

All one-use item types should be frowned upon.

[paramat]

Yes good point, another way to make it more expensive would be better.

[Desour]

Mods could perhaps override the TNT stick and so eg. make it throwable.

[paramat]

3 devs already disapprove of a TNT stick, as stated above, so it is unlikely to be added in the hope that mods will override it to use it.

[Ferk]

In addition to x3 the gunpowder, what about adding clay to the mix? It's a sorbent for some nitro explosives, like dynamite. And requiring access to clay will make it a bit more elaborate gathering the components for tnt.

The most fitting would be to have some form of nitro compound. Maybe there could be underground glowing mushrooms (since fungi can store nitrate) that could be used as ingredient for explosives, keeping them expensive while gunpowder trails can still be cheaper.

[C1ffisme]

@Ferk I dunno about that. Considering we're already making TNT out of gunpowder, which are two different kinds of explosives, I don't think we need to add a third explosive into the mix to confuse things.

[Ferk]

@C1ffisme nitrate is not, on its own, an explosive.

The proposal is to add to the recipe for TNT (TriNitroToluene) a special nitrate-rich fungus. Which has uses as decoration and an incentive for underground exploration. It would be more useful than just adding an intermediary item made of gunpowder for the sake of complicating the crafting. And more interesting than just another ore.

Imho, it's ok for MTG gunpowder to be made of coal and have no nitro since it cannot explode directly in MTG, it just makes trails (even a string would have worked for that too, imho). But an actual exploding node like TNT could do with some form of nitrogen in its recipe.

[C1ffisme]

@Ferk Mostly I'm concerned because very few people will know that clay is a sorbent for an explosive. If I saw clay in a recipe for an explosive before you told me about it, I would have thought it was a typo or a joke.

[paramat]

There is some support for crafting TNT stick items into a TNT node. The TNT texture is a bundle of 16 red TNT sticks but 9 is better for crafting. 9 sticks in the texture won't divide well so we could leave the texture unchanged. Then later a stick could, if desired, be made a low-power explosive.

[paramat]

2128 merged.