My own Observations (2022). Full disclosure, I no longer use HN News, they have demonstrated that they don't value rational discourse or community. Many of the problematic behaviors I saw while commenting on HN were very similar in structural elements to those used for Thought Reform, and described by renowned psychiatrist Robert Lifton regarding Maoist struggle sessions from the 1950s.
A few things:
Vote manipulation has been a longstanding issue. Sybil attacks were at the time common and growing in frequency.
A -4 hides any unsanctioned post from view, negative karma closes people's account and while they claim there are protections against downvote-bombing, I've seen these downvote brigades happen many times.
Posts with certain keywords are automatically down-voted, but may snap back before the 1hr mark, this can be used to "struggle" people (Psychology of Totalism) that respond in disagreement. These downvotes take away karma as well as squelch people.
HN claims to not have a record of these vote manipulations (in the short term), it was clearly happening regularly so someone was being dishonest or they lack any kind of non-repudiation for their vote systems. (A fundamental of any Information Assurance/IT Security)
HN rules are designed to be applied arbitrarily and are fundamentally not-defined in a way that can be applied consistently. As a result they are inconsistent and contradictory.
This appears intentional. Dang was notified of the inconsistencies, and no changes were made. HN prefers to make you guess at what the rules actually mean, and the meaning/contexts they apply those rules to disciplinarily after the fact, change regularly based on the feeling of the mod that day. They do not follow rational guidelines, and appear hegelian in nature.
After a time, a failure to correct means its sanctioned and by design. Terms such as swipe are not properly defined, as are the flame bait rules. Discipline of these rules is applied broadly to any critical discussion; with warnings given to all parties involved, though individuals who post quality over quantity are punished more heavily.
Marxist-based comments, soft propaganda and malign influence are a big problem on the site. Worse, anyone correcting misleading or false statements gets disciplined for breaking the rules (as flame bait). Propaganda and malign influence regularly seem to get free reign.
Useful information is hidden. A post about which manufacturers of TVs still made non-SMART TVs, had all Sceptre models (one of the few mfg's who provided these TVs at the time) downvoted/hidden from view. Several people mentioned it, every such post was removed or hidden in a enveloped post that isn't visible/doesn't load. No explanation given.
HN Rules are also used to punish people for correcting incorrect information, and for disagreeing. Its very collectivist in structure.
To demonstrate just how crazy this got, there was a person who promoted consuming lead as a nutritional supplement (WeNeedLead); claiming spuriously that it was not harmful. This was allowed to remain, as the flag option was not available (to an account with over the 31 karma claimed to be needed to flag, I had several hundred at the time).
Even following the clarification provided by Dang directly about how HN must allow the community to correct false and misleading information (as not a moderator responsibility), and applying that later verbatim, this still resulted in Dang disciplining all parties for infractions of the rules, for following what he himself said (which I still have in writing).
Also, occasionally the top border bar and site themes changes to red, the entire color scheme changes; not sure what this is about. All Red colors tend to promote criticality as a dark pattern, whereas orange is neutral. Its a subtle dark pattern with a documented effect.
Chat-GPT use goes unpunished.
Irrational and fallacy based argumentation goes unpunished for voluminous accounts.
Correcting false information (rational discourse), and disagreeing respectfully results in mod discipline or downvotes for supposedly breaking the rules, rules which can be applied completely arbitrarily to just about any intelligent conversation. Collectivist.
In my opinion, the site is run by deceitful people with a malevolent agenda. Its not a place anyone should be spending time.
My own Observations (2022). Full disclosure, I no longer use HN News, they have demonstrated that they don't value rational discourse or community. Many of the problematic behaviors I saw while commenting on HN were very similar in structural elements to those used for Thought Reform, and described by renowned psychiatrist Robert Lifton regarding Maoist struggle sessions from the 1950s.
A few things: Vote manipulation has been a longstanding issue. Sybil attacks were at the time common and growing in frequency. A -4 hides any unsanctioned post from view, negative karma closes people's account and while they claim there are protections against downvote-bombing, I've seen these downvote brigades happen many times.
Posts with certain keywords are automatically down-voted, but may snap back before the 1hr mark, this can be used to "struggle" people (Psychology of Totalism) that respond in disagreement. These downvotes take away karma as well as squelch people.
HN claims to not have a record of these vote manipulations (in the short term), it was clearly happening regularly so someone was being dishonest or they lack any kind of non-repudiation for their vote systems. (A fundamental of any Information Assurance/IT Security)
HN rules are designed to be applied arbitrarily and are fundamentally not-defined in a way that can be applied consistently. As a result they are inconsistent and contradictory.
This appears intentional. Dang was notified of the inconsistencies, and no changes were made. HN prefers to make you guess at what the rules actually mean, and the meaning/contexts they apply those rules to disciplinarily after the fact, change regularly based on the feeling of the mod that day. They do not follow rational guidelines, and appear hegelian in nature.
After a time, a failure to correct means its sanctioned and by design. Terms such as swipe are not properly defined, as are the flame bait rules. Discipline of these rules is applied broadly to any critical discussion; with warnings given to all parties involved, though individuals who post quality over quantity are punished more heavily.
Marxist-based comments, soft propaganda and malign influence are a big problem on the site. Worse, anyone correcting misleading or false statements gets disciplined for breaking the rules (as flame bait). Propaganda and malign influence regularly seem to get free reign.
Useful information is hidden. A post about which manufacturers of TVs still made non-SMART TVs, had all Sceptre models (one of the few mfg's who provided these TVs at the time) downvoted/hidden from view. Several people mentioned it, every such post was removed or hidden in a enveloped post that isn't visible/doesn't load. No explanation given.
HN Rules are also used to punish people for correcting incorrect information, and for disagreeing. Its very collectivist in structure. To demonstrate just how crazy this got, there was a person who promoted consuming lead as a nutritional supplement (WeNeedLead); claiming spuriously that it was not harmful. This was allowed to remain, as the flag option was not available (to an account with over the 31 karma claimed to be needed to flag, I had several hundred at the time).
Even following the clarification provided by Dang directly about how HN must allow the community to correct false and misleading information (as not a moderator responsibility), and applying that later verbatim, this still resulted in Dang disciplining all parties for infractions of the rules, for following what he himself said (which I still have in writing).
Also, occasionally the top border bar and site themes changes to red, the entire color scheme changes; not sure what this is about. All Red colors tend to promote criticality as a dark pattern, whereas orange is neutral. Its a subtle dark pattern with a documented effect.
Chat-GPT use goes unpunished.
Irrational and fallacy based argumentation goes unpunished for voluminous accounts.
Correcting false information (rational discourse), and disagreeing respectfully results in mod discipline or downvotes for supposedly breaking the rules, rules which can be applied completely arbitrarily to just about any intelligent conversation. Collectivist.
In my opinion, the site is run by deceitful people with a malevolent agenda. Its not a place anyone should be spending time.