mminehanNZ
commented
5 years ago So I found a better fork by janmagnet. And I change the battery type to 0x53 as per the manual. Seems to be OK for now.
Open mminehanNZ opened 5 years ago
mminehanNZ
commented
5 years ago So I found a better fork by janmagnet. And I change the battery type to 0x53 as per the manual. Seems to be OK for now.
mminehanNZ
commented
4 years ago I have added a sub fork to the janmagnet fork. This includes a pico_status script that reads back the system information register.
tetzlav
commented
4 years ago I have the same frustrating experiences with UPS Pico (Stack PoE Version). Battery type 0x43 etc...
But my first problem is, that the Pico doesn't recognize RPI powering. and the BAT level is always 0x000 and RPI powering level 0x500 (=5.00V). I measured the voltage levels with external equipment. BAT level is 4.04V, RPI powering level is 5.05V.
Do you have made some other register settings or is my Pico scrap?
Overall i think the Pico project is dead! Ioannis Mourtsiadis muddling along a bit, sells the rest of Picos he have and there is no real support anymore. To silence the frustrated users the forum was shut down and emails are not answered. It wasn't better with the old Pico versions 1.0 an 1.1. The Picos never really worked like charm.
PiModules
commented
4 years ago Hi,
First of all as I mentioned that we are supporting PIco over support email, as it can be monitored, forums re good tool, but difficult for us to be monitored.
Therefore support done over the support@pimodules.com is the best tool.
Back to your technical problem, battery type is set to LiPO, and as far you are using LiPO battery it is the same. The different type was setup in order to calculate running time based on capacity. Therefore use battery as it is, except if you are selecting other chemistry type. It is also good to declare the firmware version, so we can easier to support you.
What is the difference between PoE PIco and stack. The difference is different resistor that decrease the battery charging current, to smaller one.
Why we are doing that, because power supplying capabilities are restricted in the PoE circuit. BTW. Please also report if you have the old PoE or the newer one improved.
Please report or send video, how your UPS, BAT and CHG led behavior. Description is usually not enough. You have 5V because your system is supplied by PIco, and NOT PoE. The most possible reason, without knowing what you done is that your daemons are not running properly.
Therefore in order to clarify it, please send me or to forum a short video (10-15 seconds)
You do not need to set anything for normal PoE setup, but I need to know if you have normal setup. There are o special registers.
PIco Project is not dead !! Definitely not !!, We are releasing new PIco HV4.0 fro the new Raspberry Pi, new firmware, but we are small, small company so many times have delays.
We have a problem with manufacturing of good qty PIco in order to cover requests than to sell rest of them as there are no rest of PIco, as you can see only few units there are. Therefore please not do such assumption, especially in publicity.
Please answer to my questions, and then I will drive you to solve your problem.
Kindly Awaiting for your detailed information instead if general one in order to further support you
Warmest Regards
Ioannis
On 11-Sep-19 11:33 AM, tetzlav wrote:
I have the same frustrating experiences with UPS Pico (Stack PoE Version). Battery type 0x43 etc...
But my first problem is, that the Pico doesn't recognize RPI powering. and the BAT level is always 0x000 and RPI powering level 0x500 (=5.00V). I measured the voltage levels with external equipment. BAT level is 4.04V, RPI powering level is 5.05V.
Do you have made some other register settings or is my Pico scrap?
Overall i think the Pico project is dead! Ioannis muddling along a bit, sells the rest of Picos he have and there is no real support anymore. To silence the frustrated users the forum was shut down and emails are not answered. It wasn't better with the old Pico versions 1.0 an 1.1. The Picos never really worked like charm.
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PiModules
commented
4 years ago Hi,
The only reason for swelling battery is high temperature or long live.
Please advise your configuration and order time
Kind Regards
Ioannis
On 07-Sep-19 12:57 AM, mminehanNZ wrote:
So I found a better fork by janmagnet. And I change the battery type to 0x53 as per the manual. Still had no response to my email to PiModules about the battery type register and swelling battery. :(
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PiModules
commented
4 years ago Hi,
Thank you for your post.
Please fin my answer within your text
On 05-Sep-19 8:30 AM, mminehanNZ wrote:
I am new to UPS PIco world. I just received 2 boards from PiModules (UPS PIco HV3.0B+ HAT Stack 450 PoE). Took a while to get them up and running. I've been making up circuits since my teenage years and am not an amature at soldering components.
You can always ask to solder these few components if you cannot do it your self. We are offering such service in a very low price
The 'Magic Switch' was a bit confusing as the manual has few errors and is missing some information.
I assume that your PIco is working now properly, and you are trying other functionalities. Please clarify ?
Strange rebooting, not staying shut down and boot loops made it all very frustrating.
Have you soldered the POGO pins ?
The manual really needs checking and updating. E.g. from page 83:
When System is Cable Power user has a possibility to restore the factory defaults. To do that the following steps need to be followed: • Press and hold the UR button • Continue to hold the UR button, and press and hold the C button. • Release the UR button, but keep holding the F button • Release the F buttonWhat? This does not make sense. Keep holding the F button, or should that be C button.
OK. our mistake, should be C, you are right
Thee are bout 200 pages, so can be some mistakes
Took hours to figure things out. Not the most fun thing I have done in a while.
Please do not use this script. One customer released it, but it is full of bugs , we are going to release our own with this ongoing firmware. This script was working for former version of PIco,
Running the pico_status_hv3.0.py I get the following errors:
UPS PIco Firmware.....: ec UPS PIco Bootloader...: 53 UPS PIco PCB Version..: 43 UPS PIco BAT Version..: ERROR UPS PIco BAT Runtime..: 2 MIN UPS PIco r232 State...: OFF Powering Mode.........: RPi POWERED BAT Percentage........: Traceback (most recent call last): File "pico_status_hv3.0.py", line 194, in print " ","BAT Percentage........:",bat_percentage(),"%" File "pico_status_hv3.0.py", line 95, in bat_percentage return datapercentage UnboundLocalError: local variable 'datapercentage' referenced before assignmentSo I had look at the code and tried to work out what is going wrong. Turns out I have a battery type 0x43:
sudo i2cget -y 1 0x6b 0x07 0x43I tried resetting the board to the factory defaults using the buttons as per the manual but still get the same battery code.
Is this a bug? Have the battery codes changed in version ec? According to the manual this is an invalid battery type. Should I try and change the code to 0x53?
Also.......one of the batteries is swelling/ballooning like it's filling with gas. Is this normal. The voltage reads (sudo i2cget -y 1 0x69 0x08 w) as 0x0440 which I presume in 4.4V. Max voltage should be 4.2v for a LiPO.
The battery resume A/D is based on resistor divider, and as an internal reference has micro controller reference. Therefore it is possible to have some deviations on that. It is not a multi-meter. The charging is done by different IC, that is measuring eh battery level internally and very accurate
We are going to add system self adjusting to have more accurate measures.
And when will the official forums be fixed, and the new firmware (0xed) released which has been in beta for almost a year! Using GitHub as forum is not ideal.
So far I would give the whole UPS PIco experience a 5 out of 10 rating. I'm kind of wishing I had tried a different UPS HAT. But it's hard to find one that works with the official Pi PoE HAT.
Have you installed both daemons ?
If your PoE is giving lower voltage you may need to adjust the level of firing of battery back up PAGE 84
Kind Regards
Ioannis
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PiModules
commented
4 years ago Hi,
Such type batteries are swelling due to 2 reasons.
Battery is old (more than 2 years), as we are ordering new batteries overtime for the production, I assume your battery is fresh
Battery has been overheated, this is possible, please advise when you placed the battery
I any case I will send you replacement, please contact with me at support@pimodules.com
Kind Regards
Ioannis
On 07-Sep-19 12:57 AM, mminehanNZ wrote:
So I found a better fork by janmagnet. And I change the battery type to 0x53 as per the manual. Still had no response to my email to PiModules about the battery type register and swelling battery. :(
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mminehanNZ
commented
4 years ago I have the same frustrating experiences with UPS Pico (Stack PoE Version). Battery type 0x43 etc...
But my first problem is, that the Pico doesn't recognize RPI powering. and the BAT level is always 0x000 and RPI powering level 0x500 (=5.00V). I measured the voltage levels with external equipment. BAT level is 4.04V, RPI powering level is 5.05V.
Do you have made some other register settings or is my Pico scrap?
Overall i think the Pico project is dead! Ioannis Mourtsiadis muddling along a bit, sells the rest of Picos he have and there is no real support anymore. To silence the frustrated users the forum was shut down and emails are not answered. It wasn't better with the old Pico versions 1.0 an 1.1. The Picos never really worked like charm.
Hi @tetzlav
I have had more success recently. I got a response from Ioannis. I think a big part of the problem is that there are a few errors in the manual which needs updating.
0x43 apparently is a valid battery format. But this is not mentioned in the manual. And the GitHub modmypi pico_status script does not recognize this format. I have a separate fork which I will update in the next day or so to allow 0x43.
I did change the battery type to 0x53 by using "sudo i2cset -y 1 0x6b 0x07 0x53"
What register are you getting for the battery voltage? What do you get if you type "i2cget -y 1 0x69 0x08 w"
What type of battery are you using?
I agree that forums are a much better way to support a product, especially these kinds of products. End users can support each other and often solve problems.
Another issue is the size of the battery. I found that once I let the batteries fully charge the Pico seems more stable. I think the 450mAh battery is too small. It takes a bit of time after a power failure (FSSD) for the battery to fully charge if you have the PoE Pico.
The UPS Pico is a powerful board. I can't find any other Raspberry UPS that supports the genuine Raspberry PoE HAT. And very few of the other Raspberry UPSs support restarting without having to push some sort of button. The UPS Pico makes use of both PEN and RUN pogo pins which allows for 'soft starts'. Many of the other UPS won't start the Pi by simply reapplying power (micro USB or PoE). So not ideal for an unattended Pi.
@PiModules
Thanks for offering to send a new battery. I have already found a replacement. The faulty battery was only 2 days old and was not getting hot. It was set up in a open environment, not in a case.
I have no problem with soldering myself. The pogo pins were a little bit tricky, but they are seated properly and working. I tested the conductivity withe a meter.
Yes...both daemons are running:
pi@raspberrypi2:~ $ service picofssd status ● picofssd.service - LSB: PiModules(R) UPS PIco file-safe shutdown daemon Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/picofssd; generated) Active: active (running) since Thu 2019-09-12 02:22:43 NZST; 11h ago
I have offered to help Ioannis with the manuals. Hopefully this will help other users.
I haven't given up on the UPS Pico yet.
PiModules
commented
4 years ago Hi,
I have answered to similar question on our forum (not this one), direct email, there is a dedicated section in the manual, etc so many times, so some times just postpone this answering to later especially if overloaded.
Therefore, here below is aA very simple explanation about how UPS PIco is working.
The UPS PIco is monitoring the 5V GPIO pins, instead of other wide available on the market UPS's it is not use its own powering input of 5V
This different approach, allows it (the UPS PIco) to be used with practically any case (housing), and there is no need to design (manufacture) own case
This approach also allows user to use it with any other system that is powering Raspberry Pi via 5VGPIO i.e. Official Raspberry Pi PoE HAT
On the UPS PIco 5VGPIO is placed ZVD circuit to avoid back powering. However other HATs need to have ZVD or diode also if properly designed.
On the UPS PIco 5VGPIO is placed high current FET switch
The same UPS PIco 5VGPIO are used also for battery charging
Battery can be charged (in current version of firmware) only if Raspberry Pi is running (we are working - it is ready) on possibility of charging with Raspberry Pi not running - but not sure if release it in this firmware update
In order to recognize by UPS PIco if Raspberry Pi is running or not (so decide on various modes of powering) is used a Daemon, that via 2 GPIOs 22 and 27 recognized the status of the Raspberry Pi, as also request safe shutting down - called in the UPS PIco terminology FSSD
We decided in opposite to UPS PIco 1.0 and 1.1, 1.2 to use this Interrupt based Daemons, as the interrupt based Daemons allow to handle UPS PIco also if there is executed a hard task on the Raspberry Pi i.e. mass files copying. With former approach it was not possible because it was not interrupt based, therefore if Raspberry Pi executed a mass files copy there ware a delays in UPS PIco servicing so it cause system shut down as UPS PIco assumes that Raspberry Pi has been shut down
Due to this special and different type of design, it is absolutely necessary to, have installed Daemons, or write your own.
Person who wrote these daemons for us, done it on such way that you need to install both FSSD and email daemon.
We are working on different handling of Raspberry Pi (again based on interrupts) but not using any GPIO or using only one, and doing the interaction with PIco partially or totally via I2C.
We done it on the PiCoolFAN4 and seems this approach is working well.
As far the UPS PIco is monitoring 5V on GPIO, it can be used with PoE HAT, no others done it
The 5V monitoring until before some months, was based on interrupt driven routine. Based on 200 uS A/D reading
Since the Version 0xE0, we developed an used approach based on internal OPAMP, and continuously monitoring and if lower from threshold generation of interrupt
This approach is better and allows user to adjust much more flexible the parameters of 5V monitoring, and avoid temporary switching to battery if 5V quality is not good by adding filtering on this routine.
There is a dedicated chapter on the manual, with examples, pictures and very detailed description how to use it.
UPS PIco manual is 200 pages and still growing, yes there are some small mistakes, but OK, it is 200 pages
UPS PIco is not a toy, and it is addressed to professional users, especially due to many additional functionalities that has been implemented inside.
The UPS PIco is not dead, as mentioned one of anonymous user here on this forum, and using my non anonymous personal data, it is continue developing and new firmware release is ready for about 2 months to be released, just under very extensive testing
Yes, We are going to release new UPS PIco HV4.0, there ware many problems with temperature of Raspberry Pi4, battery thermal isolation, full 3A battery back up current, and at the same time keeping the price same low as before. We solved all that problems on the new UP PIco HV4.0 and added much more functionalities, keep the compatibility with old models, it is under production and very soon (hope next week) we will start pre-orders.
Before we will start pre-orders of the new PIco we will release the new firmware update for the old one
In opposite what one anonymous user said on this forum, we are usually under production as demand for the UPS PIco is bigger than we can cover. Probably he explain his own way of thinking, not ours.
Dear mminehanNZ ,
Probably the PoE is giving you lower voltage than threshold is set. This is the answer why the UPS PIco is switched on the battery back up.
First make sure that the Daemons (2) and installed, then
I would suggest you, to disable the battery back up functionality, battery charger and the see the real voltage on the 5V GPIO.
Make also sure that you have the new PoE HAT, as the former was with some problems.
Then you should experiment with the threshold based on what voltages you read form PoE, a very detailed description is provided on the manual, also in the word version I sent you yesterday (if I imagine you are this person - not plan to publish your personal data like the other keeping himself anonymous)
We are happy to support what ever you need again
Please not use my personal data in a positive or negative way until I agree with publishing of them. I hate any social media carousel, today I'm the owner and founder of PiModules, however you are dealing with company not myself.
Tomorrow somebody else can be the owner (not planned for the next minimum 2 years)
We are as a company in very good conditions, therefore please discuss about technical maters until we make working properly again our company forum.
My warmest Regards
Ioannis
On 12-Sep-19 5:27 AM, mminehanNZ wrote:
I have the same frustrating experiences with UPS Pico (Stack PoE Version). Battery type 0x43 etc... But my first problem is, that the Pico doesn't recognize RPI powering. and the BAT level is always 0x000 and RPI powering level 0x500 (=5.00V). I measured the voltage levels with external equipment. BAT level is 4.04V, RPI powering level is 5.05V. Do you have made some other register settings or is my Pico scrap? Overall i think the Pico project is dead! Ioannis muddling along a bit, sells the rest of Picos he have and there is no real support anymore. To silence the frustrated users the forum was shut down and emails are not answered. It wasn't better with the old Pico versions 1.0 an 1.1. The Picos never really worked like charm.Hi @tetzlav https://github.com/tetzlav
I have had more success recently. I got a response from Ioannis. I think a big part of the problem is that there are a few errors in the manual which needs updating.
0x43 apparently is a valid battery format. But this is not mentioned in the manual. And the GitHub modmypi pico_status script does not recognize this format. I have a separate fork which I will update in the next day or so to allow 0x43.
I did change the battery type to 0x53 by using /sudo i2cset -y 1 0x6b 0x07 0x53/
What register are you getting for the battery voltage? What do you get if you type /i2cget -y 1 0x69 0x08 w/
What type of battery are you using?
I agree that forums are a much better way to support a product, especially these kind of products. End users can support each other and often solve problems.
Another issue is the size of the battery. I found that once left the batteries to fully charge they seem more stable. I think the 450mAh battery is too small. It takes a bit of time after a power failure (FSSD) for the battery to fully charge if you have the PoE Pico.
The UPS Pico is a powerful board. I can't find any other Raspberry UPS that supports the genuine Raspberry PoE HAT. And very few of the other Raspberry UPSs support restarting without having to push some sort of button. The UPS Pico makes use of both PEN and RUN pogo pins which allows for 'soft restarts'.
@PiModules https://github.com/PiModules
Thanks for offering to send a new battery. I have already found a replacement. The faulty battery was only 2 days old and was not getting hot. It was set up in a open environment, not in a case.
I have no problem with soldering myself. The pogo pins were a little bit tricky, but they are seated properly and working. I tested the conductivity withe a meter.
Yes...both daemons are running:
pi@raspberrypi2:~ $ service picofssd status ● picofssd.service - LSB: PiModules(R) UPS PIco file-safe shutdown daemon Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/picofssd; generated) Active: active (running) since Thu 2019-09-12 02:22:43 NZST; 11h agoI have offered to help Ioannis with the manuals. Hopefully this will help other users.
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tetzlav
commented
4 years ago [...]
- UPS PIco manual is 200 pages and still growing, yes there are some small mistakes, but OK, it is 200 pages
Yes, i think the functions and registers in hardware and firmware grown too complex and the general documentation is not up-to-date. You can not rely on this informations (because of old informations and mistakes). Even the official tools here at github are not-up-to-date. They dont even know the default battery type and show ERRORs in default setup. Thats not really professional...
- UPS PIco is not a toy, and it is addressed to professional users, especially due to many additional functionalities that has been implemented inside.
And yes, in times of Pico HW 1.1 i tried to implement the Pico in professional industrial envroment (as USV for a Raspi driven Panel that shows some process parameter and graphs to user/visitors) and i give up because of buggy firmware. For examble the battery was killed again and again (and swelling) because of not reliable powering, battery and charging state detection...
- The UPS PIco is not dead, as mentioned one of anonymous user here on this forum, and using my non anonymous personal data, it is continue developing and new firmware release is ready for about 2 months to be released, just under very extensive testing
The "new" firmware is announced since ONE year in beta status. I wonder if she'll come (within next days).... It was the same as in HW version 1.0/1.1/1.2 times.
Exemplary you can read the thread New Firmware 3.0 for the UPS PIco HV1.0 and HV1.1 in (meanwhile readonly) forum, or this threat Update of firmware to support latest kernel ?? and in general all the problem posts in the old UPS Pico subforum. Some threads even appear to be deleted - why?
I also miss a firmware archive with traceable changelogs of firmware. I remember that e.g firmware 0x53 worked fine with hw 1.1 - 0x59 no longer. Infos are bit here at github wiki and on the hompage and in old forum threads and on google docs and as issue at github - its very confusing!
Yes, We are going to release new UPS PIco HV4.0, there ware many problems with temperature of Raspberry Pi4, battery thermal isolation, full 3A battery back up current, and at the same time keeping the price same low as before. We solved all that problems on the new UP PIco HV4.0 and added much more functionalities, keep the compatibility with old models, it is under production and very soon (hope next week) we will start pre-orders.
Before we will start pre-orders of the new PIco we will release the new firmware update for the old one [...]
Maybe you should begin to cleanup your official Homepage (dead links, actual infos, ...) first, maintain your tools and wiki at github and fix your firmware instead to use your energy develop new functions and hardware releases.
I own different hardware releases of UPS Pico. No one worked out-of-the-box. Everytime i had hoped know every is fine, new hardware, new firmware, new software tools - but years later everthing is the same...
As i already said: the Pico CAN be nice piece of hardware. In there is a bit brain work and much know-how. But without software, firmware and (community) support its useless, And this part ist unfortunately not at hardware level.
^^^^^^^^^ MY OPINION!
mminehanNZ
commented
4 years ago @PiModules I did NOT say "I have the same frustrating experiences with UPS Pico (Stack PoE Version). Battery type 0x43 etc..." You have quoted the wrong person. Look at the 4th post and you will see that is not me. Some how you have it wrong.
When is the new firmware coming out? I am still having issues and am hoping the new firmware will fix some of these. One module reboots because of a 'MCLR' issue that I am still trying to figure out. The other now has a restart_watchdog problem after rebooting sometimes.
You really should set up a proper forum. GitHub is not the place for users to look for hardware support. And email support can be very slow and frustrating. Forums work and they allow community support.
PiModules
commented
4 years ago Hi,
We have it ready, a long time, just under very extensive testing as we rewritten some critical routines. We expected to release it this weekend, but I stopped it as need more analysis. The current release date is this weekend, and I do not think that it will be changed anymore. This ongoing version is the 0x50, where we cover all pen issues.
Regarding the forum, we recover it but not moved yet to the our domain, hope and wish to do it very soon
Temporary please use support@pimodules.com
Regards
On 25-Sep-19 7:50 AM, mminehanNZ wrote:
@PiModules https://github.com/PiModules I did NOT say "I have the same frustrating experiences with UPS Pico (Stack PoE Version). Battery type 0x43 etc..." You have quoted the wrong person. Look at the 4th post and you will see that is not me. Some how you have it wrong.
When is the new firmware coming out? I am still having issues and am hoping the new firmware will fix some of these. One module reboots because of a 'MCLR' issue that I am still trying to figure out. The other now has a restart_watchdog problem after rebooting sometimes.
You really should set up a proper forum. GitHub is not the place for users to look for hardware support. And email support can be very slow and frustrating. Forums work and they allow community support.
— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/modmypi/PiModules/issues/48?email_source=notifications&email_token=ACBH7BFLKNBHXHZQSTDGU5DQLLUXTA5CNFSM4ITZPSD2YY3PNVWWK3TUL52HS4DFVREXG43VMVBW63LNMVXHJKTDN5WW2ZLOORPWSZGOD7QSV5A#issuecomment-534850292, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACBH7BFVKIA2CBE2BKJPBOTQLLUXTANCNFSM4ITZPSDQ.
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tetzlav
commented
4 years ago Hi, We have it ready, a long time, just under very extensive testing as we rewritten some critical routines. We expected to release it this weekend, but I stopped it as need more analysis. The current release date is this weekend, and I do not think that it will be changed anymore.
We are waiting patiently for the new release...
PiModules
commented
4 years ago Hi,
Tomorrow max after tomorrow.
As some users have had problem with adjusting of levels (seems you too, sorry about that) I added a self adjusting system, so you not need to do anything anymore. System will self adjust to existing voltage levels of PoE, weak PSU etc
BR
On 08-Oct-19 5:53 PM, tetzlav wrote:
Hi, We have it ready, a long time, just under very extensive testing as we rewritten some critical routines. We expected to release it this weekend, but I stopped it as need more analysis. The current release date is this weekend, and I do not think that it will be changed anymore.We are waiting patiently for the new release...
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mminehanNZ
commented
4 years ago Tomorrow max after tomorrow.
And....still nothing. Seems to a recurring theme.
I'm going to start looking at other options for a UPS for the Pis. I really just need a reliable UPS that can safe shutdown. All the other stuff like sounder, LEDs, fan etc are nice but not essential. What is essential is a UPS that works.
I'm still having issues with random shutdowns reported as MCLR. And sometimes when I manually shutdown the PIco automatically restarts the Pi. This is happening on two different setups.
I was hoping the new firmware was going to fix some of these issues but I'm tired of waiting. Time to move on and find a different UPS.
Good luck everyone.
tetzlav
commented
4 years ago Hi, Tomorrow max after tomorrow.
It seems to be a joke! Im stop waiting too and the PiCo will be scrapped... :-/
mminehanNZ
commented
4 years ago I just got hold of PiJuice UPS, It seems way better than the PIco module. The software is much better. Seems more stable. I had to uninstall the PIco daemons, change the /etc/modules (leaving the i2c-dev) and update-rc.d etc. Basically work through the installation in reverse. I'll let you know how it goes. And best of all I can confirm that the PiJuice works with the official Raspberry Pi PoE HAT.
PiModules
commented
4 years ago Hi,
We have glued on the automatic adjustment procedure that has been added especially for you and some other people that can not (as it looks like) to adjust their system to the existing environment)
By construction it is not possible to have reported MCLR, as the only way to have MCLS is to press UR button. You must be doing something wrong. As far you are using a weak power source after a time system will be not able to support you, it is logical. You need to have do a proper setup for your specific Power monitoring i.e.
sudo i2cset -y 1 0x6b 0x1a 0x25 sudo i2cset -y 1 0x6b 0x1b 0x03
or even increase the second to
sudo i2cset -y 1 0x6b 0x1b 0x04
This is the penalty if using the PoE as only powering system and not other additional PSU. You need to adjust little bit to your existing powering conditions. Please also confirm that you not have an old version of PoE, as there ware some problems with power loads.
Your system is definitely not changing the battery, and on my opinion, it is not charging because power is no sufficient, so you are using your system with discharged battery. You need to make proposed changes.
If it is possible please send me a video of your LEDs to see how they are blinking, this will allows me to estimate more accurate your problem.
BR
On 13-Oct-19 5:58 AM, mminehanNZ wrote:
Tomorrow max after tomorrow.And....still nothing. Seems to a recurring theme.
I'm going to start looking at other options for a UPS for the Pis. I really just need a reliable UPS that can safe shutdown. All the other stuff like sounder, LEDs, fan etc are nice but not essential. What is essential is a UPS that works.
I'm still having issues with random shutdowns reported as MCLR. And sometimes when I manually shutdown the PIco automatically restarts the Pi. This is happening on two different setups.
I was hoping the new firmware was going to fix some of these issues but I'm tired of waiting. Time to move on and find a different UPS.
Good luck everyone.
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PiModules
commented
4 years ago Hi,
Under normal conditions, it is forum for technical support of UPS PIco, however as you used this forum for other advertising I would need to answer to this also. I'm not willing to put one product against the others however you are not providing accurate information on this.
There are many UPS for Raspberry Pi on the market. However all of them are using separate power input and not monitoring the GPIO by itself.
This kind of UPS offered by others is called - off line UPS - as are using separate power input and when this power input is absent they switches to battery back up. They use the separate powering input (instead of Raspberry Pi micro USB one) and are powering the system via GPIO 5V. Therefore absence of power available on the input firing the battery back up. You need on all other UPS for Raspberry Pi (as you see there are always micro USB input on PCB) to have a dedicated case. These types of UPS can not work with PoE.
The UPS PIco HV3.0 is more closed to online UPS or line interactive UPS as it s monitoring the powering line on GPIO 5V itself (there is no need to addition power source - additional micro USB on PCB, so can be used with any case available on the market) and power gaps on the GPIO automatically switches to the battery back up. This is described in very details in the manual.
Mentioned by you by construction (as far I know) is using separate input for powering input. Therefore you will need to have connected in additional to PoE also external PSU, as it is not based on monitoring of GPIO 5V. This is the main difference between PIco and all other Raspberry Pi UPS
The UPS PIco is using the power provided by PoE itself to powering the system. If you like to add external PSU you can do it also in PIco, but this is nonsense to use additional PSU on PoE system.
From the beginning I asked you to adjust some of monitoring parameters of power monitoring, as far I understand you not done it. We sold couple of UPS PIco for PoE and no one reported problem, may be a few users.
As UPS PIco is monitoring the 5V GPIO it is mandatory to make some adjustment to your configuration (current consumption, and PoE voltage level)
As I seen, some (i.e. you) people can not (or not like) to do this adjustment, we are implementing an automatic adjustment routine.
BR
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mminehanNZ
commented
4 years ago Seriously? This is your response to the problem? You don't think the lack of a support forum (previously shutdown and never reinstated), blaming users, a manual with errors in it, firmware that has been repeatedly promised and never delivered, a website with numerous dead links, and some users reporting swollen batteries could be the real problem?
Blaming the end user:
the only way to have MCLS is to press UR button. You must be doing something wrong.
No I am not touching any of the buttons. It sits untouched in a server rack. The PIco runs ok for 2 or 3 days and then the MCLR error appears in the SysInfo register. And yes I know about the Rev2 PoE HAT. I have definitely got the new versions.
Empty promises of firmware updates:
Hi, Tomorrow max after tomorrow. The current releasedate is this weekend
Your website says 0xed 'still in beta' since August 2018!
No user forum:
it is forum for technical support of UPS PIco
Which forum? Where? The link on the Pi Modules website goes nowhere!
This is the penalty if using the PoE as only powering system and not other additional PSU.
If the PIco is not setup for a PoE supply by default then why make a big deal out of PoE support. If you are going to sell a device with the main feature being PoE support then set it up that way. It's too complicated to expect end users to have to experiment with pwr_spk_duration and pwr_rfc_level registers.
This is described in very details in the manual.
The manual also says, in big red writing, "These parameters should be only changed very experienced user, that are understand properly the Power Monitoring Algorithm, and are able to define properly the new conditions. For all other users, it is recommended to keep these parameters as they set by manufacturer." Again, not very easy for end users to understand what to do? But hey......just blame the users.
There are many UPS for Raspberry Pi on the market. However all of them are using separate power input and not monitoring the GPIO by itself.
This is not true. The PiJuice uses the GPIO. I have the PiJuice UPS setup with the official PoE HAT (no external USB power) and it is working perfectly. It reads the supply voltage, battery voltage, battery temperature etc. No need for a special case either. You do not need to use the POGO pin with a 3b+. And the software is easy to understand and use. No need to manually set complicated registers.
no one reported problem, may be a few users.
So in fact other people are also having problems.
I have spent enough time and money on the PIco. You need to learn some lessons about customer service. An apology for the delayed firmware would be a good start. You need to fix your website, reinstate the user forums, fix the manuals, and release the so called 'updated' firmware, before you start making accusations like 'you must be doing something wrong'. You are not going to have a successful business this way.
This whole experience has been very disappointing. My advice to other users or people looking for Pi UPS is do your homework, read about issues and make sure there is adequate support (i.e. user forums and reliable firmware updates) for the device you buy. The PIco has many great features, on paper at least. But it is too complicated, difficult and time consuming for the average Pi user.
Photo below is of the PIco vs PiJuice. Notice neither is using any USB power. They are both being powered with official Raspberry Pi PoE HATS (updated versions).
PiModules
commented
4 years ago Hi,
I'm not willing of course blaming you, just trying to solve your technical problem.
Only this. As your email is long, please find my answer in the text with bold
On 21-Oct-19 11:54 PM, mminehanNZ wrote:
Seriously? This is your response to the problem? You don't think the lack of a support forum (previously shutdown and never reinstated), blaming users, a manual with errors in it, firmware that has been repeatedly promised and never delivered, a website with numerous dead links, and some users reporting swollen batteries could be the real problem?
The only reason that batteries can be slowed is high temperature, or long time of usage, or very unusual bad battery. Anyhow I offered you immediately by email to replace the battery without relay looking for the reason. On personal email, you said that it is fine and not needed. As we have a high demand of PIco, batteries usually are here, no longer than 2 weeks. Therefore remain 2 other reasons high temperature or faulty batteries. Both are possible, as I m assuming you have not used them on high temperature, remain that battery was faulty. Very unusual, but always possible. That was the reason I offered you to send you replacement.
Regarding dead-links, we are a small company, mainly related to design and production (of course not only UPS PIco), so as we upgraded (by our-self the new website), some links are dead. We are working on that to update. Whatever customer are questing by email we are sending it.
Blaming the end user:
the only way to have MCLS is to press UR button. You must be doing something wrong.This is my opinion as I'm trying to see what is the problem on your side. From construction of PIco (the MCLR is connected to UR) therefore the most possible reason is that it has been used. We implemented a mechanism (you just used it) to check the reason of reset and other system information). I'm trying to indicate what could be the reason, not attacking you, just trying to see what could be wrong. The only alternatively could completely discharged battery, so PIco is switching to battery and as battery is empty, system is resetting. But then you should have beeping and BAT LED lit. You have not reported it to me.
If you can please send me a short video of your PIco LEDs
No I am not touching any of the buttons. It sits untouched in a server rack.OK accepted, then we should see what other could be wrong
The PIco runs ok for 2 or 3 days and then the MCLR error appears in the SysInfo register.So, as I mentioned you used the controlling mechanism. Do you have any other flags ON, on this variable (register) ?
And yes I know about the Rev2 PoE HAT. I have definitely got the new versions.OK. That is also good to know, but reported these info right now, I never received any information regarding these before on support email or forum. On PoE PIco we are using low current for battery charging just 80 mA, as PoE is reduced with current availability
Empty promises of firmware updates:
Hi, Tomorrow max after tomorrow. The current releasedate is this weekend Your website says 0xed 'still in beta' since August 2018!OK. You are right, but please understand that the UPS PIco firmware is multitasking firmware with 10 Interrupts used, so debugging sometimes can take time. But you are right. Should be much faster.
No user forum:
it is forum for technical support of UPS PIco Which forum? Where? The link on the Pi Modules website goes nowhere!I check with my colleague, though it is directing to our forum
This is the penalty if using the PoE as only powering system and not other additional PSU. If the PIco is not setup for a PoE supply by default then why make a big deal out of PoE support. If you are going to sell a device with the main feature being PoE support then set it up that way. It's too complicated to expect end users to have to experiment with pwr_spk_duration and pwr_rfc_level registers.OK. Agree with you. However, as I'm designer sometimes see all tasks much easier that you - end user. Due to that fact, I'm working on the firmware with self adjusting capabilities, to solve this problem forever.
This is described in very details in the manual. The manual also says, in big red writing, "These parameters should be only changed very experienced user, that are understand properly the Power Monitoring Algorithm, and are able to define properly the new conditions. For all other users, it is recommended to keep these parameters as they set by manufacturer." Again, not very easy for end users to understand what to do? But hey......just blame the users.Yes, you are right. working to correct it. From what you wrote looks that you are one of the experienced user, so not addressed to you. I'm just trying to avoid people start playing with it, the we will receive many email that will not allows us to answer.
There are many UPS for Raspberry Pi on the market. However all of them are using separate power input and not monitoring the GPIO by itself. This is not true. The PiJuice uses the GPIO. I have the PiJuice UPS setup with the official PoE HAT (no external USB power) and it is working perfectly.OK. then it is my fault I do not have it on my hands
It reads the supply voltage, battery voltage, battery temperature etc. No need for a special case either. You do not need to use the POGO pin with a 3b+. And the software is easy to understand and use. No need to manually set complicated registers. no one reported problem, may be a few users. So in fact other people are also having problems.POGO pin is used for 2 reasons: to reset Raspberry PI when needed (Watch dog functionality), and to reset Raspberry Pi when cable power comes back during shutting down process.
As far you mentioned it is monitoring GPIO 5V Pins, it is difficult to me to understand what happen when cable power return during the shutting down procedure, then system will be just hang-up. As system is using GPIO 5V pins, you need to restart the Raspberry Pi. I can not imaging different state. This is the reason we are using POGO pins, as we are monitoring the GPIO 5V Pins. It is technically not possible to quite from such state without POGO pin. Therefore if you are not using POGO pin and cable power return system will hang up, on any Raspberry Pi UPS powered/monitoring the GPIO 5V
I have spent enough time and money on the PIco. You need to learn some lessons about customer service. An apology for the delayed firmware would be a good start. You need to fix your website, reinstate the user forums, fix the manuals, and release the so called 'updated' firmware, before you start making accusations like 'you must be doing something wrong'. You are not going to have a successful business this way.
Sir, I'm accepting any comments from users, bad or good. The firmware is under testing process and we hope to release it very soon.
This whole experience has been very disappointing. My advice to other users or people looking for Pi UPS is do your homework, read about issues and make sure there is adequate support (i.e. user forums and reliable firmware updates) for the device you buy. The PIco has many great features, on paper at least. But it is too complicated, difficult and time consuming for the average Pi user.
Photo below is of the PIco vs PiJuice. Notice neither is using any USB power. They are both being powered with official Raspberry Pi PoE HATS (updated versions).
*You put me on a very difficult state to write against other company and product. I'm not working on that way. Of course I have not studied their product, however it is difficult to me to understand how it is possible to recover system when start shutting down and cable power returns without resetting the Raspberry Pi with gold pin and at the same time power the system via Raspberry Pi micro USB. It is just not possible on my opinion. But OK I probably missing something*
*OK. I got your remarks. *
Kind Regards
20191022_093538 https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/48574178/67242169-6dcc3900-f4b1-11e9-9ff3-b51e24432747.jpg
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tetzlav
commented
4 years ago We expected to release it this weekend, but I stopped it as need more analysis. The current release date is this weekend, and I do not think that it will be changed anymore. This ongoing version is the 0x50, where we cover all pen issues.
...another month later maybe some less people are waiting anymore...
davros1973
commented
4 years ago Hi
I came here with an issue and following the 0x43 lead via Google - but - turns out, the issue was my confusion/mistake. Still getting to grips with the product (1.5 days in, so far). I've read through a few versions of the manual now, as well as threads in forums, various web sites and so on. I'm even maintaining a spreadsheet now as reference material.
Reading this thread though ... (Ioannis) (this is just my personal experience/interpretation/opinion) ...
I think the UPS PIco hardware specs look great. I appreciate the hard work you've put into this product.
Why I decided on your product:
As an end consumer looking for a quick LiFePO4 reliable UPS to harden & use and to manage much of the power in my entire house including servers, with zigbee, hard wired connected devices (other bistable latching relays etc. and other logic-driven switching), alternative 868MHz connected, taking into account various sensor feedback, I couldn't see anything that could compete with using your hardware as a platform I could extend to all my use cases. I want to make a personal app eventually to easily understand the state of all my equipment and servers etc. and if necessary automatically deal with brownouts/blackouts in a reasonable way, automatically but with remote manual intervention - but also reasonably hardened against malicious attack. E.g. I always use an RC circuit on any higher-powered bistable latching relay so even if a malicious user obtained remote control of it, they wouldn't be able to switch it more than however many seconds or even minutes I deem reasonable for the device/load (but also thinking about arcing of course). That's the sort of control freak I am. :)
I worry about all the LiPO batteries I have in the house - using power banks with pass through inappropriately as well as so many other devices with them in held often at 100% charge. I worry how they might present more risk over time. So I wanted a ready made LiFePO4 UPS solution, that I could more or less forget about for 10-years say, and - that I could program fairly freely and use with other ready made (programmable) solutions so that I could minimise the work required to achieve my goals on a very money/time constrained budget.
Frustrations ...
Alas - I share some of the frustration aired here. I wish you'd somehow find a very competent person who could revise all previous documentation related to the UPS PIco to achieve greater coherency and consistent accessibility for us (speaking for myself) amateurs. That kind of undertaking is an art-form that not many companies achieve unfortunately. It's not one of my skills. I think there might be a slight language barrier sometimes when it comes to customer communication too, and maybe, that chasm in empathy that sometimes arises between a stressed/hard-working/proud tech guy/team and their ungrateful customers who don't seem to appreciate the effort put into the products and don't seem to listen to what the product owner thinks are the simple solutions. (My interpretation of the different pov's).
I'm looking forward to the Raspberry Pi 4 implementation (whenever it comes). (The Pi3 is actually a better choice for my application I think, anyway - but anticipate other uses for the Pi4 variant).
I appreciate you can't keep up with production as is ... I think that with better consumer/pro-sumer level documentation and supporting software and support for creating a market for 3rd party software and with better integration to other popular software then you could see even greater demand that might be worth scaling up production for reaching better efficiencies! I think you could see better margins with more focus on software actually. I'm saying this because I want to consume such offerings and am always frustrated when I can't find what I want on the market. It's frustrating to see such great products that could be superb in every detail if only the will/vision was there.
So ... I'm a frustrated but still happy customer. So far. :) I've had to sacrifice a lot of personal time on top of the substantial money I've already paid for the hardware which is satisfying in some ways but not a priority among all my other time-constrained priorities ... (plus finding suitable reputable LiFePO4 cells in stock anywhere was a pain - I ordered from Italy on this occasion, and, had to order the HAT itself from Germany, and the other parts from my home - UK) ... I would have preferred to have just paid a reasonable amount of extra money to get instant gratification with easy-to-use self-documenting software and easy integration with other products.
I feel like it's been a very uphill journey. I knew I'd have to do some soldering, but I didn't quite realise I'd have to parse so much documentation just to analyse current relevancy, or, to try to understand how 0x50 is greater than the prior unit-incremented 0xec or 0xed from an intuitive hex standpoint rather than possibly be a mistake as it was hard to understand all of the reported release dates / website updates, or understand the best sources of information etc. when it was hard to know if some were abandoned. It was an added burden. That aided and abetted my confusion which caused my error of understanding that via Google brought me here. But I'm not bitter or anything ... please don't misunderstand my intent ... I just want to be helpful!
Again - I'm saying all this because I really do, sincerely, appreciate the benefits of your hard work - it's good technology - it does what I want - and I just want "more". And I want better. I want you to do really well (selfishly) so you can give me stuff that I want! Carry on. :)
EDIT: what I would like as a customer/consumer is one source of truth - where I could enter my firmware version (if known, else defaulting to latest), and board, and then get a website or maybe dynamically generated pdf straight away though that would ignore some website benefits, that has information just about my board and my firmware. I don't know if a CMS exists that lets you do that easily - forking with every new major pivot, but where common information is shared and simply referenced. Something that's more sustainable to manage with updates and variations and end of life. Rather than static information that tries to provide information on all variations and that struggles with versioning and can become stale etc. And as a simple GUI preference person that likes mimic diagrams it would be great to have an exploratory sample web server / page to read/write all the registers that visually groups them suitably or even overlays the (exact version) physical board representation. I know I'm fantasizing a bit - all these things take a lot of work to get going, but, if done well, they'd then be sustainable keeping up with increasing complexity, and would make life easier for everyone I think. (Nb - the more I play and experiment with the HAT, the more I like it - it has a lot to offer and has a lot of clever design).
I am new to UPS PIco world. I just received 2 boards from PiModules (UPS PIco HV3.0B+ HAT Stack 450 PoE). Took a while to get them up and running. I've been making up circuits since my teenage years and am not an amature at soldering components. The 'Magic Switch' was a bit confusing as the manual has few errors and is missing some information. Strange rebooting, not staying shut down and boot loops made it all very frustrating.
There was no mention that you can can't use a heat sink if you install the fan as there is not enough room.
The manual really needs checking and updating. E.g. from page 83:
What? This does not make sense. Keep holding the F button, or should that be C button.
Running the pico_status_hv3.0.py I get the following errors:
So I had look at the code and tried to work out what is going wrong. Turns out I have a battery type 0x43:
I tried resetting the board to the factory defaults using the buttons as per the manual but still get the same battery code.
Is this a bug? Have the battery codes changed in version ec? According to the manual this is an invalid battery type. Should I try and change the code to 0x53?
And when will the official forums be fixed, and the new firmware (0xed) released which has been in beta for almost a year! Using GitHub as forum is not ideal.
So far I would give the whole UPS PIco experience a 5 out of 10 rating. But it's hard to find one that works with the official Pi PoE HAT.
I just want some advice on the battery version code.