Rethinking the "slogan"

[fluffypony]

Many moons ago we created a slogan for Monero: Secure. Private. Untraceable. It was during a conversation with mnstrcck, the lead developer for Feathercoin (remember that?) who, as someone who had been involved in the altcoin world for a while, was kindly advising us on some of the lessons he had learned. The conversation is below.

[2014-05-29T20:31:08] <davidlatapie> mnstcck: I just thought about a catchphase, which
                                     could appeal to constantly disappointed users
[2014-05-29T20:31:20] <davidlatapie> Like the very recent XC scam
[2014-05-29T20:31:38] <davidlatapie> The catchphrase is: "We deliver"
[2014-05-29T20:31:52] <davidlatapie> Short, true, appeal to scammed people
[2014-05-29T20:32:08] <fluffypony> but we haven't delivered anything yet
[2014-05-29T20:32:10] <mnstcck> I like it - but the problem is you use "we" - Monero isn't
                                about anyone as much as everyone
[2014-05-29T20:32:11] <fluffypony> :)
[2014-05-29T20:32:13] <davidlatapie> I don't work in marketing, so that may be a stupid
                                     thing
[2014-05-29T20:32:25] <davidlatapie> mnstcck: right
[2014-05-29T20:32:26] <fluffypony> and the point is that the coin would continue even if
                                   we all died tomorrow
[2014-05-29T20:32:39] <mnstcck> Exactly - we should focus on the technology
[2014-05-29T20:32:45] <davidlatapie> fluffypony: we did with ring signatures, fair launch,
                                     optimised miner
[2014-05-29T20:32:49] <mnstcck> Fast. Secure. Anonymous.
[2014-05-29T20:33:10] <fluffypony> mnstcck: yep
[2014-05-29T20:33:22] <davidlatapie> "Fast. Secure. Anonymous" isn't something every coin
                                     and his dog is claiming?
[2014-05-29T20:33:27] <fluffypony> anonymous
[2014-05-29T20:33:28] <fluffypony> maybe
[2014-05-29T20:33:31] <fluffypony> untraceable?
[2014-05-29T20:33:31] <mnstcck> We need to tell people, clearly, why XMR is different to
                                bitcoin - darkcoin
[2014-05-29T20:33:33] <fluffypony> private?
[2014-05-29T20:33:35] <davidlatapie> mnstcck: yes, the "we" is problematic
[2014-05-29T20:33:50] <mnstcck> Then we tell them why they need it
[2014-05-29T20:34:27] <fluffypony> also I'm unsure about fast
[2014-05-29T20:34:31] <fluffypony> it fails the Starbucks test
[2014-05-29T20:34:36] <mnstcck> 60 sec block time is quick, no?
[2014-05-29T20:34:37] <davidlatapie> "Untraceable" and "fungible" could appeal to clever
                                     crypto user
[2014-05-29T20:34:53] <fluffypony> mnstcck: for a secure transaction you'd still have to
                                   wait 10-20 minutes
[2014-05-29T20:35:07] <mnstcck> Oh, sorry, the words I used are just the words I would
                                think of when designing the phrase - if we go that far
[2014-05-29T20:35:10] <fluffypony> plus we're debating moving to 120 seconds
[2014-05-29T20:35:15] <davidlatapie> But just them - for less educated crypto people, let
                                     alone non crypto, this would too complex
[2014-05-29T20:35:29] <fluffypony> Secure. Private. Untraceable.
[2014-05-29T20:35:54] <mnstcck> I'm saving those three fluffy and I'm going to sleep on it
[2014-05-29T20:36:31] <mnstcck> I want to put myself in my own shoes a year ago when I
                                finally figure crypto out.
[2014-05-29T20:36:47] <davidlatapie> I like your last one, fluffypony . I think the
                                     tagline will have to change when we'll target a
                                     wider audience

David is sadly no longer with us, but the points he raised are correct: Monero has always been a strongly technical project. With more and more non-technical people being attracted to Monero, and with the project branching beyond just the privacy focus, I've been thinking a great deal about a new slogan. I'd like to use this thread to discuss my suggestion, and also to make alternate suggestions / refinements.

My suggestion for a new slogan is:

Monero: good Internet money

Some variations on that are:

• Monero: money for the Internet
• Monero: excellent Internet money

and so on. What we want to convey is not specific properties of Monero (untraceability, security), which are meaningless to most, but rather that Monero is good money to use on the Internet due to those properties.

[skifree-snowmonster]

Branding (design) is not a whim, its a strategy to solve a problem. The proper process is not to try and find something that "sounds good", and instead design something that solves the problem.

What is Monero's problem that needs fixing?

Monero is confused with Dash constantly, relatively unknown (and misunderstood) to Bitcoiners, and probably the most private coin on the market by default.

With that in mind, the story of Monero isn't that it's private, it's what the privacy allows. Fungibility.

Since that word itself is more or less foreign to the masses, ferretinjapan's suggestion of the more general term "sound money" would be a good place to start.

[darentuzi]

"Private money"

[bitlamas]

Although Monero runs throughout the internet, maybe we could think about using the word digital instead of internet? I can imagine transactions and exchanges of Monero occurring in an offline fashion.

[QuinnMallorry]

While I appreciate the effort and the intent, I don't identify with any of these new slogans. It may not mean much, but as joe-casual-observer these sound like something an intern would put into the <p class="lead">Monerum Ipsum</p> field of a bootstrap template they hadn't finished yet.

Let's start with the core ideas we want to communicate to the uninitiated user, and go from there, whilst not forgetting the body of content that's out there already. We don't want to appear as if this is a shift away from what it is, a form of money for your eyes only.

[anonimal]

I like the keywords "Private" and "Untraceable". "Secure" is probably implied and may be too subjective.

How about something like:

Monero: the untraceable digital currency

[danrmiller]

I don't like "Untraceable", its too bold a claim. Even more so at the time it was adopted. Its too easy to lose creditability and trust and then have to backtrack to "Hard to trace if you use it right and they aren't looking too hard", etc. Remember how Oracle's slogan "Unbreakable" became an ironic joke?

[serhack]

Monero: Your own private bank

[naveenspark]

Here is something I wrote up for a FAQ: What is Monero?

Your privacy matters. No matter where you live in the world, it is your right. Monero is trusted private, secure, and untraceable internet money. You can use Monero to send money to friends, or family, or buy things online. Monero puts you in control of your money. There is no need for a bank. With Monero, you are the bank. Monero was developed by a community of world class developers, cryptographers, economists, designers, and researchers who care deeply about your right to privacy. Monero is open-source and accessible to all. Want to learn more about Monero or contribute to the project? Visit GetMonero.org.

[brenmcma]

Great FAQ @naveenspark

Something like "good Internet money" or "money for the Internet" are a bit too generic IMO - most won't take the time to go to explore "what makes it good and why. Some of the aspects of Monero which have already been noted here are privacy, security, untraceability - all of which lead to Monero being sound, fungible, good. And are the properties we want to communicate to the next generation of Monero users as adoption increases?

I almost like something like: Monero: Secure. Private. Sound. Untraceable has a bit of a negative connotation to it, but Sound is much more positive.

[stoffu]

@naveenspark

Monero is trusted

Maybe better to avoid using the word "trusted"? Because the whole point of cryptocurrency is to trust no one but yourself (and the mathematics). Not sure what would be the best way to convey this idea to ordinary people, though.

[SamsungGalaxyPlayer]

I like using the word safe. In my opinion, the term safe includes many people's concerns of privacy, fungibility, security, etc. Safety means something positive for everyone, without any possible negative associations with privacy.

So I propose:

Safe internet money or Safe money for everyone

People should feel safe using Monero in any circumstance.

[bitlamas]

I like using the word safe. In my opinion, the term safe includes many people's concerns of privacy, fungibility, security, etc. Safety means something positive for everyone, without any possible negative associations with privacy.

I like the idea of using the word safe or synonyms. I would probably still drop internet for digital.

Secure digital money.

Safe digital money. Shielded digital money. Et al.

[4matter]

Monero: E-cash

(Credit to Milton Friedman for saying "E-cash" during an interview back in 1999.)

[miziel]

Monero, your digital cash

[ghost]

Monero: The Money Only You Control

[jwinterm]

What's Bitcoin's slogan?

[bitlamas]

What's Bitcoin's slogan?

Bitcoin.org has as title: Bitcoin - Open source P2P money.

[mardarfar]

Monero, Encrypted digital money.

[paulshapiro]

How about "sound money" instead of "good money"?

[snirp]

I had to come up with a Monero slogan recently for a Facebook campaign. The audience wouldn't be into the technical details, so I had to present it in a way that would present Monero in a way that matters to them. Here is what I came up with.

Monero keeps your private finances private.

Rather than introducing some novel concept, it focuses on something you have and may be at risk of losing. It seems to be in line with @naveenspark 's FAQ entry. And it repeats "privacy": it's that important :)

Something that contains "internet money" should be avoided IMHO. It puts it firmly in the world of hackers and appears to give it a limited use / domain, while are making a currency. Just my 2 cents.

The unique property of Monero right now is fungibility. Something I can reason about passionately and I truly believe in. But for the world, I cannot see how to incorporate that word into a slogan for a broad audience.

[snirp]

Another thought: Monero is really community driven. A word that captures that in a positive manner is grassroots. We truly have a grassroots coin, so that could be something to use.

[peanutsformonkeys]

"Private Banking"

[emesik]

Monero: Your money is safe

[zexanana]

I think "Monero: safe digital money" sounds simple and appropriate. "Internet money" sounds a little bit like you are talking to someone completely unfamiliar with the internet, like you're talking to a 80 year old person. In my opinion, the word "safe" encompasses the consequences of the (to be) old slogan. Private, untraceable, decentralized, trustless, they all contribute to being "safe money". In the future, with the massive adoption of smartphone money transactions (and crypto to a wider extent) and cash being used less and less, I think even the "digital" part could be dropped. "Monero: safe money".

[CamilleScholtz]

I really like the "safe money" slogan, it's quick, it's friendly to the ears, anyone can understand it.

Some critiques to the various slogans I've read:

• Use "safe" over "secure", "safe" sounds more friendly and I think this helps in getting rid of the "criminal stigma" of Monero. Also like @zexanana said, secure implies safe.

• Don't use "cash" in the slogan, again I think it has some "criminal" connections.

• Don't use words such as "grassroots" or "fungible", people who aren't native English speakers won't know the meaning.

[peanutsformonkeys]

Using the word “safe” could imply that you can’t lose your money. If you don’t manage the mnemonic or private spend key properly, your money is gone, so I would avoid the word “safe”.

I have seen the slogan “Be your own private bank.” pop-up somewhere over the last few days. I kinda like it as it stresses that owning Monero is something which you actively do. Letting someone else be your private bank (IOUs) isn’t what we stand for.

[zexanana]

I understand the concern. But in that sense, no money is ever safe. If you store cash in a secure vault, your moneys' safety is dependent on your ability to keep the combination safe. I agree people less tech savvy and less privacy minded would bring hell to monero after they'd create a wallet in a compromised device, but that does not make monero unsafe, it makes safety dependent on you alone, and not on a bank. I think "Be your own private bank" might be too aggressive. For the general public, crypto adoption will be made slowly, with someone handling more and more money in crypto over a large period of time, as they build up trust and familiarity on the technology. Something like be your own private bank might scare people away. This whole thing is assuming we want monero to be general use money and not just the swiss bank 2.0, as I have seen. What can we replace the word "safe" with that will not be misleading and still gather many of the properties of Monero?

[serhack]

In this sense, nothing is safe.

[codingbrian]

The problem Monero solves is privacy. Once there is wide adoption, with Bitcoin (and most alt's), you can find out how much people make/have and where people spend their money. We may have "nothing to hide," but that doesn't mean that we want everybody to have access to all of our financial transactions. I don't think you'll find a person alive who trusts every person and every government. There's always going to be somebody who wants to oppress you. Having a historical record of every transaction is just a horrible idea. So how do we summarize this? Do we remind people to not trust the government(s)? Do we remind them to not trust criminals? Do we remind them to not trust those around them? The answer seems simple: Monero: Trust No One.

[bitlamas]

"Trust No One" sounds too aggressive. I completely understand what @zexanana meant for using a slogan that appeals for the masses and not only the tech-savvy users.

We can come to the conclusion that nothing is ever safe, but I don't agree that we shouldn't use the word only because it may imply that the user can't lose its money. This is part of the education that we, as a community, should be responsible for: teaching people to take care of their own money now that they have all the control.

Anyway. I like how "safe" sounds, but I'm sure we can come up with something else that sounds good and represents Monero.

[anonimal]

"Trust No One"

[samleegithub]

Monero: Private digital money

[samleegithub]

I like monerooby_doo's suggestion too: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7mnw83/monero_internet_cash/drvbz77/

Monero: Private Digital Cash

[rehrar]

That's more or less what's on the front page of the website right now.

[codingbrian]

If "trust no one" (or anything similar) is too aggressive, we can frame it differently. To put all cryptocurrencies into context, Bitcoin was created in response to the 2008 financial crisis. The problem is corrupt governments and institutions (banks). Watch any Andreas Antonopoulos "Introduction to Bitcoin" video and he explains the oppression of the fiat system used around the world. That being said, I have a non-aggressive idea that I think is catchy... Monero: Free Money Obviously, this is "free as in free speech, not as in free beer." But if you want to catch people's attention, saying "Free Money" is the way to do it.

[bitlamas]

Monero: Freedom's Money

Sounds almost patriot.

[Gingeropolous]

Eh, I feel there's always too much emphasis on the privacy stuff, regarding privacy as something that people need. I mean, yes, it is something people need - but its also something that money needs in order for it to be functional money.

So, with that in mind, I get the "good internet money" thing put forther in FP's OP. It provides the stage for explaining why bitcoin aint great, but it also packs a nice sandwhich of humility in that there is an ideal internet money.... perhaps its something we are working towards and Monero itself will achieve, but its also possible that its not.

Of course, this opens us up to dillwads slapping slogans on their coin that say "best internet money" or "gooder internet money" but whatever.

People are starting to get bitcoin, just like people were starting to get email circa 1995 or whatever. Cue classic newscast video. So now, its much easier to explain Monero by explaining where bitcoin fails, and for most people this is privacy. But if you get to chat with them further, you have the chance to broach the subject of decentralization and mining and blocksize and dynamic limits.

"Good internet money" is an outright slap in the face to bitcoin, because there's an inherent comparison, but thats fine by me. It raises the question of what makes good internet money.

[peanutsformonkeys]

Why are we afraid to use a more “aggressive” tagline? I think we should not hide what we excel at and that is privacy. Anything else is self-censorship. If it slows down mass adoption, so be it. I feel that the phrase “good Internet money” is about as generic, and thus meaningless as you could get. I think that would be a horrible choice.

[ghost]

I agree with people's opinions on "internet money" and such. It sounds like a cheesy early internet motto. Internet won't even be important in the near future - the word itself will evolve. We shouldn't pin Monero to something that can become obsolete or evolve into something else. I like the privacy aspect of Monero, without it - why would I have invested? Private digital cash is good enough. I dont even think we need a slogan "like bitcoin" - why should we follow. How about we lead without haing anything at all. let Monero's privacy and anonymity speak for itself.

[zexanana]

I agree "good internet money" is quite meaningless. In my opinion we should focus on the words "safe" or "private", with "safe" being the more broader appeal option, as opposed to "private" which would certainly label monero as the privacy coin, when this should not be the focus. I think someone already mentioned this: money HAS TO BE private. I don't think people value this on the cryptocurrency sphere yet but labeling us the privacy coin would be counterproductive. If we go for "safe" we will still attract everyone that wants to keep their finances private while having a broader appeal to the general public.

[guzzijones]

'Monero, Sound Money' explains fungibility better than I ever could in 3 words. I vote for it. In fact, I use it instead of fungibility now. Less confusing to give the full explanation if I start out with it. Lets' face it nobody gives a sh*t about privacy anymore. What they do give a sh*t about is money, and that their money has value.

[CamilleScholtz]

While I like it I think many non-native English speakers might interpret this as some currency for music or something.

[bitlamas]

While I like it I think many non-native English speakers might interpret this as some currency for music or something.

I'm Brazilian and I admit that this is very possible. When we read/listen to the word sound the definition is usually linked to music or volume, almost never to the definition that it's free from flaw, defect, or decay.

Which is also one of the reasons I like the word **secure** even more than safe, because it's pretty much the same in almost all the languages out there. It's a very global word.

[Buddybenj]

Monero: Transact privately

[Gingeropolous]

Monero: Freedom money

I also like secure, but I feel it could be misconstrued as "oh my money is always secure" when that type of security depends on your opsec.

I think freedom money may get it all across. The user is free to do with the money what they want, due to its privacy, fungibility and soundness. The user is free to obtain monero simply by connecting to the internet - the egalitarian PoW means that people with relatively modern and ubiquitous hardware can obtain some type of mining reward. The user is free from many types of authoritarian control, including from the developers, due to the ethos of Monero to implement adaptive parameters.

Goddamn monero is awesome.

I just realized @curumimxara posted this as well. I totally get it

[cryptoizzy]

HI all! first time posting (i feel like i'm calling into a radio show of old.. long time listener, first time caller.. har har har). I'll try to contain my verbosity, but i was hoping to share a few thoughts. i suspect i will fail on the former point, but if you can stand my prose, i'd really appreciate it. i have (what do the kids say these days?) - mad respect for the monero community. (yes, i know that was like 20 years ago).

first off, one of the monero developers clued me into this forum when i discussed in our email correspondence: "the issue i have with monero as it's 'marketed' now (and i know a lot of people bristle at the concept of marketing.. i do too.. at least insomuch as marketing is often synonymous with manipulation, and i have no interest in manipulating people) is that it seems more privacy focused rather than focused on the societal good it could impart as the successor to bitcoin as 'money'. " - me. anyhoo..

i had a couple of ideas i'd like to throw out there.. first off, while i admit that i came to crypto initially thinking i could 'make a bunch of money', it didnt take long before i realized there was a much bigger game in town... actually facilitating the world through our monetary system. before i understood fungibility, i wrote a piece talking about bitcoin giving economic background and walkthroughs as to why bitcoin is/was so important. despite the fact that bitcoin is (obviously to all of us here) compromised, i'm still really proud of the work and did put my heart into it. i'd encourage anyone here interested to have a look - i put it on scribd called 'the power of money: a case for bitcoin'. YMMV but i've basically only gotten super awesome happy joy smiley feedback from anyone who's read it and bothered to let me know. at this stage of the game, it basically applies to monero (and im aiming for a rewrite.. more on that at some point). anyway, i really tried to express just how powerfully 'what' we use as money shapes our world and how this occurs. i daresay that much of it may be new to even this lot of fine educated folks.

for what it's worth (and maybe not much), i come from a background on wall street. please don't hold this against me if you can help it. i swear, i've done my penance and lived in my own personal crucible until life beat all (well, much at least) of 'it' out of me. regardless, despite occasionally flubbing the stock-vs-flow concept, if i put aside my self-deprecation for a moment, my non-pseudonymous self has what would be considered by those in the industry as a strong level of real institutional economic/financial markets experience. all learned firsthand by being in that world.

so - back to the posting. my two cents: monero is as we know a huge threat to the extant monetary system and those who benefit from wielding that power (i dubbed them the 'masters of money' in my piece). as such, we should expect and attempt to anticipate any all actions that will be performed to try and delay/retard/undermine adoption. bitcoin got the full-frontal assault, and has succumbed. it's been weekend at bernie for BTC for some time now. with that in mind, i think one of the methods (whether actively deliberate or simply stumbled upon) is the association of Monero with the dark web, criminal activity, etc.

As much as people may disagree with the insane statement 'you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide', people can't help but get a little shiver of nervousness when touching a coin associated with criminality... even if it's separated by a few degrees by calling it 'privacy'. most people don't want to rock to boat, or risk getting in trouble. as such, i think that any emphasis on monero's privacy aspects are barking up the wrong tree and playing into the hands of those who would like to position it in people's minds as an illicit coin.

as long as we focus on monero as a private, untraceable, etc coin, it will be tossed in the same 'bucket' as dash, zcash, verge, and electroneum. yes, i just threw up in my mouth a little.

what it should be 'comped' (as we would say in the business) against (no, not like in vegas.. comped as in comparable company analysis.. or in this case, coins..) is Bitcoin, BCH (gag again) and Litecoin... the coins that aim to be money. in this light, the superiority of XMR comes to the fore quickly, due to it's "moneyness"... which incidentally is associated with fungibility/privacy.

i confess i regret posting an article a few weeks ago talking about the financial return possibilities for monero if it becomes the 'darknet coin' of tomorrow. i was musing on valuation, and it was the wrong emphasis to place on it.. even if it has truth to it. (im aiming to modify that article to acknowledge this foolish move of mine).

so - before i even found this thread, and realizing that i might be able to collaborate in a meaningful way, i thought of the slogan Monero as 'sound money'. i still like it, especially as its absolutely technically true, but i feel the meaning will be lost on most people. most people don't have any concept of what 'sound money' is, so the hook needs to include something they can connect to, feel good about, and that's inviting, rather than nervousness inducing. I (preliminarily) propose an slight extension... and at the risk of sounding hokey, "Sound money for a balanced world." before you say 'that sounds so dumb!' know that i don't think what i just shared is the 'winning tagline', but it's in that direction that i think we need to move. what sound money is, is huge. world changing. in all seriousness, we are potentially facilitating the entire planet for ages to come. let's not be afraid to think in the biggest terms we can. if you doubt that a currency can change world-orders, please please watch RIck & Morty S03E01... and see the ending. that actually inspired me to write my big treatise. plus i love rick and morty.

OK - so i feel like i have been holding the conch for far past my time and so jack, ralph, and even piggy are giving me the evil-eye. i'll wrap it up with a few final thoughts on what i've begun working on and/or am contemplating personally.

1) a bit off-topic, but.....i'd like to rewrite 'the power of money: a case for bitcoin'.. to be focused on monero, but also to clean up a fair bit of it, make it more readable, etc. but i'd really like it to actually get distributed. any chance any of you guys knows any publishers? i'm not interested in getting paid for it.. (though i wouldnt object too vociferously). honestly i just want to get the message out.

2) i think everyone on this forum is probably uber-smart (or at least lyft-smart)... but as devs etc, we need to recognize that we are probably skewed much more toward left-brain. as such, getting some fresh blood in of a more creative bent might be hugely beneficial.

in that vein(#2) ive come close to 'converting' a friend of mine who is from what i've seen of his work, a truly brilliant creative type... practically ethereal.. like, the guy sees things and makes connections that are not of the world we live in (no he's not schizophrenic.. just maybe creative type genius). anyway when i walked him through the crypto history as i see it (and monetary history) he got really excited about contributing. he is keen to work with me (and maybe others) to develop a series of web videos (he's a graphic designer and video producer), and maybe even a full on documentary on 'money'.. and monero. early days still, but he is in 'digest and gestate' mode.. im excited to see what pops out for direction and message.

OK - signing off. please be kind. i'm used to getting angry messages from riptards, but i actually really respect all of y'alls opinions, so it would be a downer for me if you told me to shut and and sit down.

cheers izzy

[SamsungGalaxyPlayer]

@cryptoizzy thanks for your thoughts. Your sentiments echo mine that Monero's slogan should focus more on being good money, period. Privacy and fungibility are important aspects of good money.

@Gingeropolous I actually roll my eyes a bit when I hear "freedom money". It's hard to say why, but it feels too... libertarian? Not sure. I'm afraid it will only speak to a portion of the intended audience (everyone).

[cryptoizzy]

Freedom money actually makes me think of ‘freedom fries’ if any of y’all remember the congressional ‘French fry’ controversy.

How about: Monero: Real. Sound. Money.

This also works when spoken together without the periods (as will be done) but gives 3 separate hooks to pique curiosity.

And again, deliberate no mention of privacy/fung as I think that’s a cul de sac. (See? I can also make short posts(

[stoffu]

@SamsungGalaxyPlayer

I'm afraid it will only speak to a portion of the intended audience (everyone).

I kinda agree, and I think it'd be beneficial to put more emphasis on the fact that Monero aims to be accessible to everyone with moderate hardware and internet connection. That said, here's my line:

Monero: Sound Money for Ordinary People

[Gingeropolous]

well, ideally it would be "free money", like "free software", but there's always the caviet of "free as in freedom".

I think sound money works in english, but as others have stated, it doesn't translate well.