Closed plowsof closed 2 years ago
SamsungGalaxyPlayer
commented
2 years ago Please ask all CCS proposers if they have considered applying for a MAGIC Monero Fund grant.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/w5g49a/before_opening_a_ccs_proposal_check_to_see_if_a/
noot
commented
2 years ago @plowsof I will be going with a MAGIC grant for the ETH-XMR atomic swap continued development, and will close the CCS shortly.
plowsof
commented
2 years ago 16:00:35 <luigi1112> greetings
16:00:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Greetings
16:01:05 <dukenukem> Salutations.
16:01:08 <plowsof> https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/723
16:01:09 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests
16:01:10 <Rucknium[m]> Hi
16:01:12 <plowsof> hi meeting time
16:01:28 <luigi1112> my goal is to merge or close 80% of these by the time we're done here
16:01:31 <luigi1112> :)
16:01:57 <hinto[m]> hi
16:02:05 <plowsof> am i the Unknown moderator?
16:02:39 <luigi1112> moderate away. I don't know what else you want to talk about, if anything.
16:04:47 <plowsof> ETH<->XMR swaps thing was closed already as its funded by MAGIC .. 1st step toward the goal
16:05:17 <plowsof> right slets just get some community highlights and jump into the ccs ideas
16:05:33 <plowsof> 3. Community highlights
16:05:38 <plowsof> also can someone ban luigi for interrupting my meeting
16:06:04 <plowsof> thanks
16:06:05 <plowsof> [MineXMR closing August 13th](https://minexmr.com/)
16:06:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Minexmr closing on the 12th* which is imo not good for hashrate during the 720blocks after readjustment
16:06:53 <Rucknium[m]> plowsof: ETH<>XMR atomic swaps are not yet funded by MAGIC. The status is: in discussions to have a fundraising campaign for it.
16:06:57 <luigi1112> glhf
16:07:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1GH yesterday, 989mh today
16:07:13 <plowsof> thanks for clarifying
16:07:14 <kayabaNerve> Hello
16:07:54 <plowsof> more info on magic here -> [MAGIC grants](https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/w5g49a/before_opening_a_ccs_proposal_check_to_see_if_a/)
16:08:02 <kayabaNerve> Can confirm what Rucknium[m] said, with the distinction it is moving forward at this time and not an equal possibility ("discussions")
16:08:34 <jwinterm[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: oh I thought you were saying p2pool had 1 GH and I was like, "no way"
16:08:47 <plowsof> also if we didn't know its actually donation week, funded by MajesticBank (ends this sunday) [MajesticBank Donation week](https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/w82bl3/donation_week_use_majesticbank_and_help_fund/)
16:09:57 <plowsof> i wanted to put up some donation pages for devs/contributors in need of hardware (as i thought this would be an easy goal to fund) and only 2 reached out to me (1 does not wish to go public with it) more info @ p2pcrowd.fund
16:10:19 <aremor[m]> MAGIC is a 3rd party?
16:10:41 <jwinterm[m]> MAGIC is US-based non-profit organization
16:10:42 <dukenukem> aremor[m]: https://magicgrants.org/
16:10:59 <jwinterm[m]> but, who is first party anyway?
16:11:12 <plowsof> who is 2nd?
16:11:32 <dukenukem> 49 minutes left, funny fellas.
16:12:14 <plowsof> 5. [CCS updates](https://ccs.getmonero.org/)
16:12:40 <plowsof> a. [[monero-bash] continued development (3 months)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/333)
16:12:44 <aremor[m]> So my point is, it’s a centralized 3rd party that is processing payments. So there’s tax implications?
16:13:00 <plowsof> hinto is the proposer, and has already completed 1 previous ccs
16:13:13 <luigi1112> yes you get tax deductions I think
16:13:44 <jwinterm[m]> aremor[m]: MAGIC is favorable for donors compared to CCS, at least in the USA
16:13:51 <Rucknium[m]> aremor: Yes. The tax implication is that any donors who have U.S. tax obligations get a tax credit for donation to a nonprofit. It's the opposite of what you're guessing.
16:13:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Re monwrobash
16:13:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1.0 stops working and 2.0 doesnt exist without ccs?
16:14:35 <plowsof> i think p2pool related proposals are more relevant now considering the minexmr closing down news
16:14:40 <hinto[m]> ofrnxmr: v1.x.x versions will still work
16:14:58 <hinto[m]> although i will stop maintaining them
16:15:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Why the increase in rate?
16:15:17 <aremor[m]> Rucknium: sorry if I’m getting in the way. But what’s the implications for the developer? There will be a W4 filed for them?
16:16:16 <plowsof> my positive input for hintos last ccs proposal was that after being funded he completed the work quickly, and continued working on it (judging by his github commits)
16:16:29 <hinto[m]> continuing to maintain it turned out to be a lot more work than I first thought
16:17:04 <hinto[m]> i also think my first ccs price might have set a precedent for small requests for funding
16:17:21 <hinto[m]> compared to other proposals i think it's an ok price :D
16:17:41 <Rucknium[m]> aremor: jwinterm knows the details.
16:18:01 <luigi1112> you don't say how many hours you think it'll take though?
16:18:07 <plowsof> too soon to reach a consensus on this proposal?
16:18:35 <hinto[m]> it'll take max the duration of the ccs so 3 months
16:18:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> To do what?
16:19:28 <jwinterm[m]> aremor[m]: I think we would normally do 1099 but tbh I'm not 100% off hand
16:19:29 <luigi1112> 3months of work or a few hours of work over 3 months
16:19:49 <hinto[m]> ofrnxmr: everything listed in the milestones
16:20:16 <plowsof> specify exact hours / hourly rate and we can re-evaluate?
16:20:36 <hinto[m]> luigi1112: pretty much constant work until it's finished and then continued maintenance when needed
16:20:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> That doesnt seem like 3 months if work
16:21:15 <luigi1112> well it's also not 3 months of pay
16:21:24 <luigi1112> 10xmr/mo
16:22:15 <aremor[m]> jwinterm: ok. Devs shouldn’t probably be properly informed because they accept proposals on MAGIC. But potential implications. Full US taxes might be up to 40% depending on tax bracket and lots of other things
16:22:28 <luigi1112> anyway it has no votes or comments so I'm not going to do anything with it presently
16:22:33 <v1docq47[m]> Hi all, sorry to late!
16:22:51 <plowsof> consensus: specify hours / hourly rate - generate some feedback (votes/comments) ?
16:23:01 <luigi1112> I'd like to start from the bottom if we can. Afghan thing
16:23:05 <luigi1112> close it?
16:23:08 <plowsof> ok
16:23:14 <plowsof> spirobels afghan proposal
16:23:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hours per item would be nice.
16:23:19 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/282
16:23:23 <luigi1112> ofrnxmr[m] agreed
16:23:24 <hinto[m]> ok, will edit the ccs
16:23:28 <luigi1112> even just rough estimates
16:23:28 <luigi1112> thanks
16:23:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close it - spirobel
16:23:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Missed every meeting
16:24:13 <luigi1112> great
16:25:03 <luigi1112> done. Translations....
16:25:16 <luigi1112> I still do not like tr ccses much at all
16:25:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: there was an issue in monero transaltions group
16:25:36 <luigi1112> 296 and 335
16:25:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im notnsure thebdetails.. I think mj and his referral?
16:25:49 <jwinterm[m]> aremor[m]: Afaik the money going to the developer would be treated as income whether it came from magic as a payment for 1099 contracting or from ccs without any formal contact
16:26:13 <jwinterm[m]> But it is beneficial from donor perspective
16:26:14 <luigi1112> :+1:
16:26:50 <plowsof> which one is 335 sec
16:27:02 <plowsof> spanish tr
16:27:03 <luigi1112> new spanish one now that he got paid for last one
16:28:46 <plowsof> i have no idea about this proposal, im only aware of a shortage of translators to verify the work of translators... and yes ofrnxmr there is another tr proposal brewing for greek / korean
16:29:10 <luigi1112> there is an existing one for greek, though IDK the overlap
16:29:20 <luigi1112> they come up with a crazy amount of material to translate
16:29:52 <luigi1112> but yeah the difficulty reviewing and the fact that it's basically volunteer work makes the whole thing almost unworkable
16:30:04 <plowsof> close the old greek one my vote
16:30:09 <luigi1112> we brought on a "tr coordinator" but then he was afk a long time
16:30:17 <jwinterm[m]> Should just establish a practice of only supporting Esperanto, no English available even
16:30:27 <jwinterm[m]> Obvs
16:30:34 <luigi1112> I'm kinda of the mind to disallow any translation CCSes pending redesign
16:30:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ive have no useful comments on tl.
16:30:58 <plowsof> +1 for dissalow further tr proposals pending redesign
16:31:01 <luigi1112> jwinterm[m] can you be coordinator?
16:31:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Well, id agree with that
16:31:21 <luigi1112> any others?
16:31:39 <chesterfield[m]> Shoutout to Google translate for helping me through all these translation ccs’s
16:31:45 <luigi1112> just a small edit to the "how to" ccs page and smooth sailing
16:31:45 <plowsof> the tr coordinator netrik182 himself says that translations are meant to be freefly submitted by the members of the community via weblate
16:32:04 <dukenukem> Disallow & closing 296 & 335 with the edit in the how to page, my two mili piconeros.
16:33:14 <luigi1112> ah it's what is ccs page
16:34:13 <plowsof> next one luigi?
16:34:58 <hinto[m]> plowsof: i think the general lack of reviewers makes it very slow
16:35:12 <plowsof> indeed
16:35:22 <hinto[m]> i submitted some translation via weblate many months ago that i don't think have been touched
16:35:47 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-front/-/merge_requests/35
16:35:48 <luigi1112> ok
16:35:54 <hinto[m]> bulk translation via a ccs might be easier to process, but idk
16:35:58 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/310
16:36:30 <plowsof> patronero was discussed in a prev meeting - rucknium suggested the totel cost of funding the ccs would be more than it would ever raise for donators
16:36:40 <plowsof> and not much activity in the comments there.. i vote close
16:37:17 <plowsof> total*
16:37:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> What is difference between this, bash, Seth docker, termux node?
16:37:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Except for price
16:37:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Seconded
16:37:57 <plowsof> its been 3 months since any comment on that one , rip
16:38:54 <v1docq47[m]> I want to say in my defense that I have not only translations, we also do voice over for videos and transcripts of all speeches from monero conf and we support the work xmr.ru for 5 years already
16:39:58 <luigi1112> internet folks are here so I might lose connection for a bit
16:40:14 <luigi1112> v1 is an old timer for sure
16:40:16 <plowsof> :(
16:40:22 <luigi1112> bit unique
16:41:14 <luigi1112> I don't have any insight into whether what he's doing is of value or not, but he's certainly been doing it a long time drama free
16:41:34 <luigi1112> s/of value/worth the cost
16:42:12 <hinto[m]> ofrnxmr: patronero seems like a more beginner friendly 1-click solution to p2pool mining
16:42:31 <hinto[m]> although the author has been MIA for a while
16:43:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is there any reason v1 ccs is urgent ATM? I know its scheduled to he started in august. but can it wait?
16:43:28 <luigi1112> ok we are down to 9 (7 after the 2 tr ccs)
16:43:37 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/323
16:43:38 <plowsof> SeedSigner - great concept, why wouldnt we want it, hourly rates are a bit sus imo though , and the feasibility of obtaining the hardware for the quoted price
16:43:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Termux node has p2pool, onion stratum user friendly setups.
16:43:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maybe I should up my price significantly
16:44:12 <dukenukem> plowsof: They said they'd come up with a beta release but no update since, as highlighted by last hinto[m]
16:44:32 <v1docq47[m]> I have problems with publishing reports on reddit
16:44:41 <dukenukem> unless I misunderstood something.
16:44:43 <plowsof> id like to see a proof of concept showing data rate transfer speeds on the hardware he intends on using via qrcode / cameras
16:44:54 <v1docq47[m]> reddit stubbornly blocks my reports, I tried to contact the moderators and they confirmed that it is reddit that blocks all reports and links :(
16:45:29 <plowsof> i vote close then on seedsigner until he comes back with a beta PoC thanks dukenuken didnt see
16:45:40 <dukenukem> np. Second the sentiment.
16:46:04 <v1docq47[m]> yes of course i can wait for august
16:46:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Third
16:46:46 <hinto[m]> agreed, cool concept but author disappeared
16:46:46 <plowsof> Garlix .io - the devs/creators themseves said here on matrix that they would close that proposal because things such as hotshop exist (the web wallet point of sail thing for monero)
16:47:12 <plowsof> sail->sale
16:47:19 <luigi1112> plowsof can you comment sometime with that sentiment?
16:47:28 <luigi1112> oh you voted close
16:47:29 <luigi1112> ok
16:47:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close
16:47:50 <luigi1112> will give it a day or so since hinto just asked 2hrs ago
16:47:54 <Rucknium[m]> Something like SeedSigner (or Monerujo's Sidekick) seems useful since users rely too much on Ledger and Trezor updates when we hard fork. But yes I would like more proof of feasibility before pushing it to funding.
16:48:11 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/324
16:48:14 <luigi1112> garlix!
16:48:25 <plowsof> close vote for garlix
16:49:02 <dukenukem> +1
16:49:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Definitely
16:49:58 <plowsof> Selstas new ccs - +1 merge
16:50:05 <sgp_> plowsof: you are now a mod of this channel, congrats 🎉
16:50:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> Merge
16:50:49 <Rucknium[m]> +1 merge to selsta's CCS
16:50:54 <aremor[m]> jwinterm: your point makes sense but there is a difference. The difference is your personally identifiable information has to be shared with additional groups which means it’s possible for it to leak easier. The Twitter leak for 54 million people this past week is an example. Centralized groups are notoriously not good as safeguarding private information
16:51:33 <sgp[m]> vote no on garlix
16:51:56 <plowsof> monero moon - i gave a thumbs down simply because his rates are double that of monero observers
16:53:09 <plowsof> i already think MO should ask for more, but this just seems unfair
16:53:19 <luigi1112> selsta's will get merged after the appropriate period
16:54:17 <jwinterm[m]> I suppose that is true aremor:
16:54:18 <plowsof> we need to talk about solopts merge request , this is important
16:54:28 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/334
16:54:30 <luigi1112> yep
16:55:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, no
16:55:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Solo opt. Split milestones. No
16:55:33 <plowsof> in my opinion, if you sign up for a ccs As a team , with milestones to pay out as a team, then , you can't just complete your part and get paid out, you must get your team mate over the finish line
16:55:49 <plowsof> you then have an excuse to abandon it, because hey, you're paid.. not your problem anymore
16:56:17 <plowsof> not a good precedent to set either modifying milestones after being funded
16:56:20 <sgp[m]> what is the context on this one?
16:56:35 <plowsof> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/334
16:56:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> And he already banked money to attend meeting and count hours
16:57:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dishonest at its best
16:57:00 <plowsof> mj has completed part of the work for some milestones so he wants to extract his pay out of them (these milestones where a team effort)
16:57:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> No.
16:57:18 <plowsof> his team mate is not yet finished with their tasks
16:57:54 <xmrfn> "Split milestones 3 & 4 into (3.1+3.2) & (4.1+4.2) for individual devs" -- wait, what? No, you do not unilaterally alter the terms of the contract. That's the opposite of why we have contracts.
16:58:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Originally he was supposed to oversee endor and ensure the work was completed
16:58:19 <plowsof> i vote no - milestones are 'set in stone' - complete it as a whole to receive payment
16:58:29 <jwinterm[m]> I think that makes sense
16:59:00 <xmrack[m]> I vote nay
16:59:13 <xmrfn> FWIW I concur. Milestones exist precisely to be as objective as possible binary yes-or-no, you made it and got paid.
16:59:33 <Rucknium[m]> mj sort of set this CCS up as an opportunity to mentor endor, i.e. increase overall skill level among Monero devs/community members. The splitting of payouts is not consistent with the mentoring idea.
17:00:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> I vote, any more of this nonsense the ccs is cancelled and funds forfeit
17:01:11 <luigi1112> my logic was basically mj wants to be paid and endor doesn't seem to care, therefore leaving them together makes the milestone more likely to be completed in a reasonable time
17:01:22 <luigi1112> logic for leaving them linked
17:01:43 <plowsof> yep, get your team mate over the finish line or you get nothing
17:01:43 <sgp[m]> I am not familiar with this specific proposal really, but I definitely feel somewhat for the person who does work and then can't get paid if their teammate didn't do anything. But still, it's not really fair to just pay for a partial proposal for nothing to come of it
17:02:56 <luigi1112> sgp[m] his argument is they are sort of doing parallel work and so "something" comes of it even if only one part is completed, I think
17:03:29 <sgp[m]> even so.... that's not really a healthy situation to put you in
17:03:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> The originally ccs says
17:03:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Should Endor not make it until the deadline, I guarantee, that I will finalize the project by myself until the coming winter.
17:03:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> No splitting.
17:04:02 <luigi1112> my preference would be they figure it out amongst themselves
17:05:04 <sgp[m]> agree
17:05:32 <plowsof> to clarify, we did not vote to remove xmr.ru's proposal - infact we did not have time to discuss it , unless?
17:06:05 <plowsof> this is to be treated as not a generic transslations proposal, as the proposor is a long time serving member
17:06:23 <plowsof> video translations / community etc
17:07:26 <plowsof> leave it up longer to generate some more interaction / feedback?
17:07:43 <hinto[m]> +1 for v1, translation work is hard + finding long-time translators is even harder
17:08:08 <v1docq47[m]> most of my translations are focused on Monero research papers
17:08:13 <v1docq47[m]> https://github.com/v1docq47/monero-research-lab-translations/tree/main/publications
17:08:29 <luigi1112> need some more engagement on that regardless
17:08:41 <luigi1112> some of the lack is probably just from being a long timer
17:08:55 <luigi1112> anyway we are over 1hr, and we got quite a lot done
17:09:11 <plowsof> yeah we're not talking about this proposal when we say 'no translations' (just to clarify)
17:09:14 <xmrack[m]> I think at this particular moment in history having a good source of Monero information in the native russian language could be very helpful to the project.
17:09:16 <luigi1112> 2 are sub 1d so don't matter
17:09:28 <luigi1112> the rest all have clear directives on what to do, with possible exception of v1
17:09:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Did we make 80%
17:09:58 <luigi1112> if we go with 9 instead of 11 to account for the 2 new ones, we are very close :)
17:10:11 <luigi1112> (considering closing the two tr ccses)
17:10:29 <plowsof> i give us a 9/10 , well done everyone
17:10:47 <xmrfn> @xmrack I'd help fund expedited alternate Russian translation FWIW
17:10:56 <dukenukem> We did it, Reddit! 🥳
17:11:00 <luigi1112> seedsigner we'll give a day or so, then close, hinto is going to update with hour estimation
17:11:10 <plowsof> poggers
17:11:24 <luigi1112> that's 4/5 of the remainder (not counting selsta and foss again)
17:11:43 <plowsof> fyi selsta will be home shortly thats why he wasnt here
17:11:46 <netrik182> I'm late
17:11:54 <netrik182> Sorry, confused the meeting time
17:12:35 <hinto[m]> sgp: very unrelated but will monero meet continue? or maybe starting breaking monero s2 with Rucknium :D ?
17:16:09 <netrik182> luigi1112 I agree with not having for tr ccses until we come up with a better system
17:16:37 <netrik182> s/for/more/
17:17:18 <netrik182> There are too much opportunistic submissions and lack of volunteers
17:17:54 <luigi1112> thanks netrik182
17:17:56 <netrik182> As someone mentioned earlier, I'm personally in favor of translations being submitted organically
17:18:19 <netrik182> As volunteer work.
17:19:22 <netrik182> We successfully managed to close the Spanish one with exceptions which was pending for 1 year
17:20:29 <xmrfn> Maybe we get volunteers with awesome swag more than XMR? Bragging rights? Exclusive Tshirts, social media badges, basically you brought XMR to the World *AND WE THANK YOU*
17:20:34 <netrik182> The German one from wobole will be reviewed by a trusted contributor but wobole themselves is not reachable
17:20:52 <netrik182> I tried contacting them without success
17:22:25 <netrik182> That's the last tr ccs still in progress iirc
17:23:50 <netrik182> I can PR a rephrased version of CCS instructions about translations not being allowed for now luigi1112
17:25:05 <luigi1112> netrik182 I did already but it's pretty basic. Feel free to propose something better.
17:26:01 <netrik182> Will do
17:32:33 <plowsof> thnx everyone for attending, have a nice weekend
17:32:52 <dukenukem> Likewise.
Location: Libera.chat, #monero-community | Matrix
Instructions for joining the monero.social Matrix server.
Time 16:00 UTC Check your timezone
Moderator: Unknown
Please reach out in advance of the meeting if you would like to propose an agenda item.
Proposed Meeting Items:
News: Monero Observer - Monero Moon - Revuo Monero - The Monero Standard
c. v1docq47 - video creation and translations into russian (august 2022 - january 2023)
d. Modified milestone payouts for SoloptXMR
e. Monero Moon August 2022 f. selsta part-time monero development (3 months) g. Add Garlix.io proposal
h. MoneroSigner. Fork of seedsigner for Monero
i. Patronero - Open Source project for donating by mining
j. Translation of Monero GUI Wallet, CLI Wallet, monero-site, Behavioral Finance, Cryptocurrency Markets (subtitles), Moneropedia, User Guides to Greek
k. Monero Afghanistan Expansion Strategy
a. Dev workgroup b. Localization workgroup c. Outreach workgroup
d. Events workgroup e. Website workgroup f. Policy workgroup g. Research workgroup
Previous meeting including logs
Meeting logs will be posted here afterwards.