plowsof
commented
1 year ago Logs
16:00:17 <plowsof> Meeting time : https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/754
16:00:17 <plowsof> 2. Greetings
16:00:38 <plowsof> hi everyone
16:00:39 <Siren[m]> Hello
16:00:58 <spackle_xmr[m]1> hi
16:01:22 <plowsof> plug some news outlets while we wait : News: [Monero
Observer](https://www.monero.observer/) - [Revuo Monero](https://revuo-xmr.com/) - [The Monero
Standard](https://localmonero.co/the-monero-standard)
16:02:16 <Rucknium[m]> Hi
16:02:43 <hinto[m]> hi
16:03:01 <sgp[m]> Hello
16:03:10 <nioc> meow
16:03:40 <plowsof> we've got some on-going drama with one of the ccs proposals (soloptxmr) but i'd like to
cover the ideas first as it would probably take up the entire hour if we start with that
16:04:01 <plowsof> with that said....
16:04:25 <plowsof> a. [Forgotsudo monero marketplace](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/340)
16:04:33 <plowsof> last-last-final call - we're closing this pending resubmission of Web Of trust only
16:04:37 <plowsof> agree?
16:05:53 <monerobull[m]> <Stnby[m]> "What is a speaker contract?" <- Contact*
16:06:24 <Stnby[m]> Confidentiality papers 😋
16:06:38 <plowsof> and we're closing b. [Develop selfhostable monero payment
processor](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/345)
16:06:38 <plowsof> , disagreements?
16:06:39 <Siren[m]> NDA
16:07:38 <plowsof> feedback requsted: c. [Monero Paper Wallets](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-
project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/352)
16:08:05 <nioc> seems like a lot of money for something that we already have
16:08:16 <nioc> https://www.themonera.art/2018/01/30/printable-monero-paper-wallet-pack-1/
16:08:16 <plowsof> reg monero wallets*
16:08:34 <monerobull[m]> I'll be there in a bit
16:08:35 <plowsof> yes the proposer has submitted an "example" design
16:08:38 <Siren[m]> > <@plowsof:matrix.org> feedback requsted: c. [Monero Paper
Wallets](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/352)
16:08:38 <Siren[m]> >
16:08:38 <Siren[m]> The designs aren't good enough
16:08:50 <Siren[m]> I think we should close it
16:09:38 <plowsof> i have contacted gnuteardrops - and being the kind soul they are they said they did not
with to interfere with anyone elses ccs' , but, if we really need new wallet designs, they open to the idea
16:10:02 <nioc> msvb also has an excellent wallet
16:10:19 <plowsof> an advanced one that is nuclear proof(tm)
16:10:33 <nioc> yes :)
16:11:09 <plowsof> so, is there -anything- this proposer can do to win you over / change your opinions? is it
not a case of "making a better proof of concept design"?
16:11:31 <plowsof> we also have xmr.gift #xmr.gift:matrix.org
16:11:45 <MajesticBank> need better write up
16:12:00 <monerobull[m]> Did we vote on anything yet
16:12:07 <Stnby[m]> nioc: These are more visually appealing to m,e
16:12:07 <MajesticBank> add decoy designs
16:12:09 <Stnby[m]> s/m,e/me/
16:12:19 <plowsof> re-voting on closing forgotsudo/develop selfhosted (the one who wants money upfront)
16:12:56 <plowsof> so we have better alternatives already (compared to the example he has shown)
16:12:57 <nioc> close
16:13:57 <plowsof> it is specifically for 'wallet restore' i must say* but i feel we have alternatives / more
talented people than the proposer - i'd say close
16:14:06 <MajesticBank> we already have designers in the community that should have priority I guess
16:14:31 <plowsof> i agree +1 for rewarding community members who have contributed already
16:14:39 <Siren[m]> close too imo
16:14:49 <nioc> close
16:15:05 <monerobull[m]> I don't think we should pay 2k on wallet designs by a non-professional designer
16:15:23 <plowsof> lets move on, this one needs some feedback / thoughts
16:15:26 <plowsof> d. [Metronero checkout](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/353)
16:16:15 <monerobull[m]> Did the things get cleared up that needed clearing up?
16:16:16 <plowsof> ive left a comment with my initial thoughts / understanding of whats going on there , might
help to have a look
16:16:57 <Stnby[m]> plowsof: you understood it right Siren left a short reply
16:17:28 <Rucknium[m]> I have three main comments on this: 1) Does this solve the problems that most online
stores have with using Monero? Frequently people in IRC or Reddit ask if there is a payment system. Does this
solve it? Need research on market demand
16:17:29 <MajesticBank> checking
16:17:51 <monerobull[m]> This was the tor-optimized BTC pay server alternative
16:18:04 <Stnby[m]> rayatina: Huh?
16:18:07 <Siren[m]> Wdym? That's our real names
16:18:33 <Stnby[m]> monerobull[m]: Yeah Javascriptless and C# less
16:18:48 <Rucknium[m]> 2) I think this is "middleware", i.e. it requires an additional layer for a complete
solution. This proposal would be more useful if it developed one example of that final layer, but also allowed
other layers to be developed of course
16:18:49 <Stnby[m]> * C# less And Monero as a focus as BTCPAYserver is not ideal
16:18:51 <plowsof> thanks for the comment Siren!
16:19:24 <Siren[m]> Rucknium[m]: What final layer are you talking about?
16:19:26 <monerobull[m]> My only concern was, does it work with both viewkeys and RPC calls?
16:19:40 <Rucknium[m]> 3) It looks like it relies on monero-wallet-rpc, which is unreliable. How will
reliability issues be handled, and is there any way that upstream fixes to reliability issues be fixed?
16:20:13 <monerobull[m]> monerobull[m]: Like serhacks wp plugin
16:20:16 <Stnby[m]> If monero-wallet-rpc is unreliable, Monero is unreloiable
16:20:22 <Stnby[m]> s/unreloiable/unreliable/
16:20:46 <Siren[m]> Rucknium[m]: Unreliable in what sense? Do you mean that it is not thread safe? Or do you
mean that the output from it is straight up inaccurate? What?
16:20:55 <plowsof> monero-wallet-rpc talking to a remote daemon is unreliable*
16:21:06 <Siren[m]> It doesn't have to remote
16:21:06 <MajesticBank> very
16:21:12 <plowsof> however , moneropay has a health check built in?
16:21:14 <Siren[m]> It's up to the user
16:21:23 <Rucknium[m]> Merchants have to write POST requests, for example
16:21:26 <Rucknium[m]> plowsof: Can you comment on monero-wallet-rpc reliability?
16:21:31 <monerobull[m]> Siren: so viewkey support?
16:21:34 <Siren[m]> Rucknium[m]: And?
16:21:42 <Siren[m]> Yes there is viewkey support
16:22:55 <monerobull[m]> Can you point it at any xmrchain-style explorer? Wp plugin straight up didn't
acknowledge payments while xmrchain was down
16:23:03 <Siren[m]> plowsof: there is an endpoint for health checks
16:23:38 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: it doesn't use public blockchain explorers for payment processing. it uses
moneropay which relies on wallet-rpc server.
16:23:46 <plowsof> let me clarify a bit - it would be a "service" - hosted by a third party , that provides
you with a payment gateway (they handle everything - e.g. their node will be local etc) - it will have 2 modes
- one where you give them your view key, another , where you "withdraw funds" (custodial - where the host
provider can take a small fee)
16:24:01 <Rucknium[m]> This is plowsof's comment in the proposal 4 days ago: "With Metronero - merchants still
require a plugin to be created to actually 'use it' - If this is something that could be added/researched that
would be ideal (I believe a plugin that provides the same functionality as monerowp would make this project
complete, as it seems to be the one most widely used currently)"
16:24:12 <plowsof> OR you can be the "service" and host it yourself
16:24:24 <Siren[m]> Rucknium[m]: this is not correct
16:24:25 <MajesticBank> integration channel would be?
16:24:43 <Stnby[m]> Rucknium[m]: Yes it might need a very simple plugin, but the issue is we cannot create a
plugin for every system
16:24:44 <Siren[m]> however plugins for e-commerce would make it easier for people
16:25:10 <plowsof> yes how will it be integrated - how can someone "use" it - by creating something that makes
POST requests - would you consider making a plugin for 1 e-commerce platform
16:25:55 <plowsof> and you will have to fight the community regarding "free maintenance" - we force you to
make it paid (ask GUPAX) xD
16:26:03 <Siren[m]> what?
16:26:09 <MajesticBank> there are plugins already by monero-ecosystem
16:26:38 <Siren[m]> MajesticBank: plugins that are not functional at times because they rely on third party
blockchain explorers
16:26:46 <monerobull[m]> Bope
16:26:50 <monerobull[m]> Nope
16:26:53 <Siren[m]> or btcpay server probably
16:26:54 <monerobull[m]> They can use both explorer and rpc
16:27:15 <MajesticBank> must be 3 click integrate thing, make proposal wider I guess with plugins included
16:27:24 <plowsof> i would say most users point it at xmrchain (as its easier) but as we seen recently - it
went offline - and so did peoples shops
16:27:46 <Stnby[m]> MajesticBank: No one commented on the proposal apart from plowsof
16:27:54 <Stnby[m]> We can provide syllius plugin
16:28:02 <monerobull[m]> plowsof: My shop wasn't down, i just had to go in and mark orders paid mysel
16:28:25 <plowsof> we are just sharing feedback / sharing ideas (some people have only seen the idea just now)
16:28:46 <monerobull[m]> Which was doable since the wp plugin doesn't round so amounts would be different by
tiny amounts of picos
16:28:58 <Stnby[m]> We could also write Prefix support for ticket purchasing in the future
16:29:38 <monerobull[m]> Does it use integrated addresses?
16:29:47 <Siren[m]> no
16:30:02 <Stnby[m]> subaddresses
16:30:33 <plowsof> Prefix is the "middle layer" we're talking about?
16:30:41 <monerobull[m]> That's good to know. Wp plugin for example uses integrated addresses
16:30:58 <Siren[m]> plowsof: there is no middle layer, this is a checkout system like paypal or whatever
16:30:59 <Siren[m]> he seems confused on what this exactly is
16:31:07 <Stnby[m]> integrated addresses is a bad way to do it, subaddresses are meant exactly for this
16:31:13 <plowsof> we want someone to make that thing that lets us use the thing out of the box
16:31:30 <Stnby[m]> plowsof: everyones box is different
16:31:47 <Stnby[m]> for example I would never but wordpress in my box of things
16:31:49 <plowsof> so we must decide on what we want the box to be
16:31:59 <monerobull[m]> I want to know what a merchant needs to provide and if it's custodial it not
16:31:59 <Siren[m]> Rucknium: Take a look at one of the proprietary examples: https://coingate.com/integration
16:32:01 <Stnby[m]> s/but/put/
16:32:15 <monerobull[m]> s/it/or/
16:32:35 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: if it's not custodial he needs to provide viewkeys, if it's custodial just
his address.
16:33:10 <monerobull[m]> And does one need to set RPC connections or something?
16:33:25 <cryptogrampy[m]> This is basically an alternative to btcpayserver, yes?
16:33:27 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: if you're not the person hosting it, no
16:33:31 <Siren[m]> cryptogrampy[m]: yes
16:33:35 <plowsof> the service provider handles all the rpc/hosting stuff
16:33:37 <cryptogrampy[m]> and has the ability to host the service for other people?
16:33:40 <Siren[m]> yes
16:33:47 <plowsof> the service prov can be yourself , or a company
16:34:02 <monerobull[m]> And anyone could host the custodial version for others?
16:34:06 <Stnby[m]> Yes BTCPAY server just not written in C# and is Monero first and JSless (Tor Extreme
settings friendly)
16:34:18 <Stnby[m]> + customizations on payment page look
16:34:20 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: yes
16:34:25 <cryptogrampy[m]> it's very complicated to setup as well
16:34:36 <monerobull[m]> Cool, I'll become the darknets PayPal /s
16:34:54 <plowsof> so we need to decide on what we want the "let me use it for a shop that sells tickets" ?
16:34:55 <cryptogrampy[m]> I think it would be important to provide an integration with this
16:35:04 <cryptogrampy[m]> maybe wordpress or something
16:35:17 <cryptogrampy[m]> maybe not
16:35:18 <MajesticBank> just feel like we need solution for non-devs because devs can already figure it out on
their own
16:35:40 <plowsof> if they are willing to integrate it into something (wordpress) or other, then we'll have to
discuss that at a later time . solution for non-devs to use it yes
16:35:50 <monerobull[m]> I liked how simple it was to set up wp plugin checkout
16:36:10 <Stnby[m]> monerobull[m]: Not everyone uses wordpress, we don't for example
16:36:10 <MajesticBank> not sure who is end user of this
16:36:31 <monerobull[m]> Just saying the experience should be similar for setup
16:36:46 <cryptogrampy[m]> So is this a layer on top of moneropay?
16:36:53 <Siren[m]> yes
16:36:55 <Stnby[m]> MajesticBank: Larger players who want to accept Monero and have the payment paged look
well integrated
16:37:00 <Stnby[m]> s/paged/page/
16:37:18 <Siren[m]> or Tor people
16:37:22 <monerobull[m]> When i set it up, i had no idea what RPC even is and i also didn't want to point it
at my own node for privacy reasons
16:37:28 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: including but not limited to
16:37:32 <hinto[m]> i don't mind the proposed api personally but as a compromise including a single working
out-of-the-box integration seems fair
16:37:46 <Stnby[m]> For example we are willing to write a plugin for https://sylius.com/
16:37:56 <cryptogrampy[m]> This might be another dumb question, but if you're already building out a server
with logins and templating, why not have the ability for merchant to add items/images/prices?
16:38:01 <Stnby[m]> Not some obscure wordpress clusterfuck
16:38:12 <Stnby[m]> wordpress aint even for e-commerce
16:38:16 <plowsof> if sylius can be shown to provide the same experience setup as wordpress then that would be
ideal
16:38:24 <MajesticBank> prestashop, magneto, wordpress, open-cart mostly needed
16:38:43 <Stnby[m]> World only uses Syllius and Magento
16:38:57 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: displaying items/images/prices pages should be handled not using a payment
gateway
16:38:58 <Stnby[m]> Who uses Prestashop?
16:39:15 <Stnby[m]> Welcome to 1964
16:39:32 <plowsof> an agreement on Magneto though
16:39:53 <MajesticBank> Just helping to shape this well for benefit of the proposal
16:39:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hi
16:39:55 <Stnby[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Syllius is taking over
16:39:55 <plowsof> hi
16:40:15 <Stnby[m]> I worked in the e-commerce space I can tell Its only syllius and magento
16:40:41 <Stnby[m]> * and magento (big players)
16:41:06 <plowsof> ok so i think we've given our feedback on Metronero , to be up for re discussion , but we
like the project (and moneropay team are capable / contribute to the ecosystem already)
16:41:11 <Siren[m]> we can add another milestone for writing a sylius plugin, I'm not sure about magento
because it's mainly proprietary
16:41:26 <Stnby[m]> MajesticBank: Self hosted paypal for Monero, plugins are easy to make/fork existing
16:41:39 <cryptogrampy[m]> I think everyone would benefit if there was a plugin built out in addition to this
16:41:40 <cryptogrampy[m]> i'd be much happier to get behind it
16:41:49 <Stnby[m]> cryptogrampy[m]: Yes but not for wordpress just because someone worships it
16:42:18 <Stnby[m]> I mean we can write it by forking existing one and changing 10 lines of code
16:42:18 <cryptogrampy[m]> Stnby[m]: yeah I think choosing a popular ecommerce solution as you suggested is
fine and preferable
16:42:35 <monerobull[m]> Well, small shops are mostly WordPress and if you're a big shop you use gateways that
support multiple cryptos and fiat
16:42:45 <cryptogrampy[m]> I think people use wordpress because the plugin exists there
16:42:49 <cryptogrampy[m]> and it's fairly easy to setup
16:42:58 <plowsof> not because they like/know what wordpress is
16:43:04 <plowsof> or woocommerce
16:43:05 <Stnby[m]> They use wordpress because they go to shared-hosting solutiuons
16:43:09 <Stnby[m]> s/solutiuons/solutions/
16:43:23 <Stnby[m]> and with metronero you won't be enough just with PHP
16:43:32 <monerobull[m]> I use WordPress because woocommerce was easy to set up with the plugin
16:43:36 <Stnby[m]> as monero-wallet-rpc is obviously not written in PHP
16:43:48 <Siren[m]> well...
16:43:55 <plowsof> right, not long left now to go through the other ideas, theres alot of feedback here for
Metronero to look at
16:44:04 <plowsof> e. [selsta part-time monero development (3 months)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-
project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/354)
16:44:10 <monerobull[m]> Fund
16:44:11 <cryptogrampy[m]> i think coincards uses wordpress
16:44:11 <plowsof> selsta isnt with us today
16:44:15 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: regardless of the reason why, many people run it. we can attempt.
16:44:32 <Stnby[m]> Siren[m]: But syllius is priority
16:44:37 <Siren[m]> fair
16:44:38 <plowsof> +1 for selsta
16:44:58 <MajesticBank> selsta legit
16:45:37 <monerobull[m]> One more pls
16:45:49 <nioc> merge selsta
16:45:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> +1
16:45:54 <Rucknium[m]> +1 for selsta proposal.
16:46:10 <monerobull[m]> Ok that's 6 yes
16:46:10 <plowsof> f. [xmr-btc-swap development and improvement](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-
project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/355)
16:46:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Next order of business
16:46:49 <plowsof> ive contacted binarybaron who is yet to comment. this proposal seems half baked / ill
planned / money pit into an abandonned project / we've already sponsored someone else (binarybaron) to do this
work
16:47:01 <plowsof> however the title is very catchy !
16:47:01 <monerobull[m]> Does comit still have a future
16:47:22 <plowsof> no still un-maintained
16:47:33 <plowsof> and none of them are expert cryptographers
16:47:39 <monerobull[m]> And this proposal is for comit right
16:47:40 <MajesticBank> I've contacted binarybaron, still at greetins point
16:48:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: ^
16:48:10 <plowsof> for me this is a wait for binarybaron to explain himself (because weve paid him to 'make it
work with a gui' )
16:48:15 <Rucknium[m]> Looks like a money pit to me. This proposal needs more time for feedback at least.
16:48:21 <monerobull[m]> Ok next
16:48:21 <plowsof> yeah
16:48:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Either postpone for clarity or close
16:48:37 <plowsof> g. [CypherPunk Radio](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/357)
16:48:49 <plowsof> he's not in here ehh
16:49:06 <nioc> do we already have a "radio"?
16:49:21 <monerobull[m]> We have 2 actually
16:49:22 <monerobull[m]> Or had
16:49:30 <monerobull[m]> Idk nobody listens to them
16:49:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Target audience for a tts radio? Nobody
16:49:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close
16:49:39 <plowsof> ive spoken with him, he wants to come to us with some code / proof of concept that hes been
working on
16:49:40 <MajesticBank> sorry my internet is very slow
16:49:40 <MajesticBank> commit swap are not usable at this point, as website is disabled and GUI is forced on
testnet only
16:49:40 <MajesticBank> all providers seems not to be working at this point
16:50:00 <monerobull[m]> plowsof: Postpone?
16:50:04 <plowsof> majesticbank thats for raising this
16:50:07 <NotMtth[m]> Yo
16:50:26 <plowsof> NotMtth is here if you have any questions
16:50:41 <plowsof> other than wait for him to show some code?
16:50:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whether it works or not, it serves no purpose
16:50:57 <MajesticBank> I would listen to xmr radio but needs to be easy to use / listen
16:51:40 <ajs_[m]> nioc: yes.. xmr.radio... but can confirm not many listeners... maybe 6 on a good day
16:52:04 <plowsof> its mainly a "video show" / community
16:52:15 <hinto[m]> agree on waiting for a poc first
16:52:16 <ajs_[m]> i have move to i2p/tor only audio format
16:52:21 <ajs_[m]> due to costs
16:53:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> News will collected by us and streamed using Text2Speech directly onto the dedicated
room.
16:53:35 <plowsof> we need proof of concept / (i suggested to reach out to ajs to set up an example / hour
show or something so we can "see" what it is)
16:53:52 <plowsof> but you're busy with monerokon at the moment
16:54:05 <plowsof> we need to "see" something
16:54:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Postpone then?
16:54:10 <plowsof> otherwise its just an idea
16:54:18 <plowsof> till next meeting
16:54:29 <plowsof> h. [Bulletproofs++ Peer Review](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/358)
16:54:46 <plowsof> full disclosure: i am not part of MRL or know anything about auditing
16:54:53 <monerobull[m]> Fund
16:54:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Within 4 weeks, if at all possible
16:55:11 <monerobull[m]> MAGIC will probably fund additional audits
16:55:20 <nioc> monerobull is funding this?
16:55:22 <nioc> great
16:55:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fund
16:55:39 <monerobull[m]> Nono
16:55:43 <plowsof> this is part of several funding roudns to integrate bp++ into monero and eventually
seraphis. the selection process for who audited it was fair as i contacted several with previous work on
monero and CypherStack where the cheapest and available
16:55:55 <Rucknium[m]> Last MRL meeting we can to rough consensus about need and scope for this. BP++ has a
long road ahead of it and this is the first step.
16:56:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Merge it
16:56:10 <Siren[m]> * have to be remote
16:56:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Next
16:56:16 <monerobull[m]> nioc: MAGIC will fund audits outside of the scope of this proposal
16:56:21 <monerobull[m]> Probably
16:56:29 <nioc> oh something actually to do with the protocol?
16:56:31 <hinto[m]> i'm out of the loop, is there a roadmap for when/who will implement this after the audit?
16:56:31 <nioc> approve
16:56:41 <nioc> monerobull[m]: sorry, bad joke
16:56:44 <plowsof> begin of december , it will take 12~ days
16:57:09 <plowsof> vtnerd is working on a proof of concept. koe will work on implementation
16:57:14 <Rucknium[m]> This CCS proposal is an initial check on the mathematics in the paper. The paper is
written by a single person without any peer review so far.
16:57:58 <Rucknium[m]> If the math is incorrect and cannot be corrected, then that's the end of the line for
BP++
16:58:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> And it appears this audit will be done by cypherstack
16:58:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> (?)
16:58:10 <plowsof> to be clear : when its merged the author will be Monero Research Lab - i ave merely applied
feedback to a text document from the MRL team and contacted auditors on their behalf
16:59:07 <plowsof> there will be more than one paper review
16:59:07 <hinto[m]> ok sounds good
16:59:11 <plowsof> i. [j-berman full-time 3 months part 4](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/359)
16:59:20 <monerobull[m]> Fund
16:59:21 <MajesticBank> more a MRL decision
16:59:32 <plowsof> MRL have appproved it
16:59:50 <plowsof> jut sharing/clarifying with community
17:00:15 <Rucknium[m]> Tentatively support. Would like to see more comments/communication from jberman's
fellow devs on the exact task list and scope.
17:00:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Merge berman
17:01:01 <plowsof> yes i have shared it in the seraphis no wallet left behind room, awaiting their approval
17:01:03 <hinto[m]> Rucknium: agreed
17:01:12 <plowsof> which so far, from what ive read, they are supportive
17:01:41 <plowsof> shold i even mention monero shopping?
17:01:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes
17:01:55 <nioc> MRL supports the proposal to review the paper is good
17:01:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> So I can say burn it
17:02:09 <monerobull[m]> ONE JILLION DOLLARS
17:02:13 <nioc> yes to jberman
17:02:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close monero shopping a week ago
17:02:30 <plowsof> j. [MoneroShopping](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/360)
17:02:39 <Stnby[m]> monero shopping love the idea
17:02:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> All in favor of merging?
17:02:58 <monerobull[m]> The idea is already live in Proxystore and way cheaper
17:03:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah. Nobody. Close it
17:03:20 <MajesticBank> next
17:03:21 <plowsof> the concept exists already yes but it was enjoyable to see
17:03:38 <plowsof> thats it, i now want to share Ruckniums update
17:03:41 <Stnby[m]> I like daily dose of spam from him
17:03:57 <Stnby[m]> * from him (10 emails from gitlab every morning)
17:04:06 <plowsof>
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/yyohle/progress_report_on_ospead_fortifying_monero/
17:04:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Before we leave, I want consensus that plowsof should be able to collect his first
milestone, and that mj should be collecting any more funds until the work is completed as initially proposed
17:04:36 <Rucknium[m]>
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/yyohle/progress_report_on_ospead_fortifying_monero/
17:04:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anyone against?
17:04:57 <plowsof> a Public version of ruckniums OSPEAD research has been released. i have not read it myself,
but the first page seems 'reader friendly'
17:05:24 <Stnby[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: never against plowsof
17:05:48 <Rucknium[m]> For those in previous -community meetings, the document linked here ^ contains the
"Document A" mentioned previously, plus a lot of other research.
17:05:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Mj should not* be
17:06:21 <plowsof> Thank you Rucknium!
17:06:44 <Rucknium[m]> https://github.com/Rucknium/OSPEAD/blob/main/OSPEAD-Fully-Specified-Estimation-Plan-
PUBLIC.pdf
17:06:52 <Rucknium[m]> ^ This file
17:07:23 <nioc> agree ooofrnxmr
17:07:58 <Siren[m]> i also agree with ofrnxmr, he is based
17:08:11 <plowsof> dont forget MoneroKons call for presentation submissions
https://cfp.monerokon.com/2023/cfp (moneropay set this up right? and are even volunteering for further help?)
17:08:39 <monerobull[m]> Uuhm
17:08:39 <ajs_[m]> comments, suggestions for improvement
17:08:40 <monerobull[m]> Is that already REALLY live?
17:08:43 <Stnby[m]> plowsof: Digilol.net team :) but yeah same people as MoneroPay
17:08:48 <monerobull[m]> Last time it wasn't
17:08:53 <plowsof> sorry, feedback for edits*
17:09:18 <plowsof> e.g. colour scheme? everyone was mean about the green
17:09:19 <plowsof> so it was changed/ better??
17:09:28 <ajs_[m]> should be up officially after next week's planning meeting
17:09:28 <monerobull[m]> The green was changed, nice
17:09:32 <plowsof> i like it
17:09:38 <ajs_[m]> content?
17:09:50 <plowsof> llove it
17:10:25 <monerobull[m]> Submission go to the monerokon emai
17:10:33 <monerobull[m]> s/emai/email?/
17:11:15 <plowsof> this year, having a full 5 months for people to submit will be a huge improvement , thank
you
17:11:40 <Stnby[m]> I hope the event goes all well, really thrilled for it
17:12:05 <Siren[m]> I hope we'll have enough funds for Prague
17:12:11 <ajs_[m]> i get an email alert
17:12:16 <plowsof> the edit to bursary funding , i like also, seems fair
17:12:19 <Stnby[m]> If there are more IT tasks to be done for MoneroKon ping me or Siren :)
17:12:32 <Siren[m]> Anything you want to be hosted
17:12:37 <monerobull[m]> Where would hours be logged?
17:12:42 <MajesticBank> funding for the monerokon to the roof
17:13:01 <plowsof> ajs , how many top sponsors can it have?
17:13:08 <plowsof> 8kusd with only 2 spots?
17:13:13 <monerobull[m]> 3
17:13:15 <nioc> 3 spots now
17:13:17 <ajs_[m]> 3
17:13:23 <plowsof> thank you
17:13:35 <nioc> check updated budget
17:13:40 <monerobull[m]> It's also 3 days this time
17:13:40 <ajs_[m]> here is the draft ccs by the way https://repo.getmonero.org/ajs/ccs-
proposals/-/blob/monerokon-2023-ccs-1/monerokon-2023-ccs-1.md
17:13:40 <ajs_[m]> still wip
17:13:44 <MajesticBank> more sponsors the better
17:14:19 <plowsof> how would a sponsor get on the 3 list? - is blind bidding happening?
17:14:37 <ajs_[m]> don't know yet
17:14:37 <ajs_[m]> tbd
17:14:45 <plowsof> ok ok
17:14:48 <monerobull[m]> First come first serve?
17:14:55 <plowsof> how to be first though?
17:15:05 <ajs_[m]> open to ideas
17:15:13 <Stnby[m]> Are there usually more sponsors than the allocated amount (is the demand such high)?
17:15:31 <ajs_[m]> last event we just asked cake wallet and rino.io
17:15:56 <plowsof> there might be a bit more competition for the top spots this year (this is my guess)
17:16:00 <Rucknium[m]> Bidding is a good idea IMHO. Let the market set the price. Hopefully high enough to
covers lots of cost :)
17:16:01 <Stnby[m]> Oh so we approach first?
17:16:07 <MajesticBank> it's tight, we all love to support monero
17:16:12 <nioc> last year was a bit hectic so....
17:16:23 <nioc> not much time
17:18:04 <plowsof> to follow things/meetings about monerokon -> #monero-events:monero.social
17:18:40 <plowsof> footnote regarding twitter comment complaints - Complaints about the official Monero
Twitter tweets/behaviour [logs](https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20221119#c161084)
17:18:47 <Stnby[m]> plowsof: Every single time someone suggests a different room, the conversation halts :)
17:19:03 <MajesticBank> if someone can make ccs for meetings calendar, that would be funded most likely
17:19:32 <MajesticBank> twitter went a bit
17:20:24 <Rucknium[m]> We already have a CCS-funded meetings calendar I thought:
https://monero.observer/tag/calendar/
17:20:25 <monerobull[m]> Oh yeah Twitter
17:20:32 <monerobull[m]> Not nice
17:20:55 <Stnby[m]> Feels like this room is filled with grandmas :D, Twitter seriously?
17:21:06 <Rucknium[m]> I don't know what happened, but Twitter tweeting power should be more decentralized.
Cake has too many things at this point.
17:21:31 <monerobull[m]> The official Twitter account started swearing and shitting on the ada sidechain
17:21:34 <plowsof> silverpill with a new project called [Mitra](https://codeberg.org/silverpill/mitra)
fediverse with monero tipping? eth wallet login? wat?
17:21:51 <Stnby[m]> Monero self-hosted mastodon, when?
17:22:06 <monerobull[m]> plowsof: It's cool but feedieverse has zero users
17:22:20 <monerobull[m]> * It's cool but fedieverse has zero users
17:22:20 <plowsof> this mitra project has "completed" a bounty (that had zero funding)
https://bounties.monero.social/posts/22/0-015m-monero-tip-bot-for-mastodon-pleroma
17:22:38 <MajesticBank> Rucknium[m]: thanks, great thing
17:22:41 <Rucknium[m]> I'm thinking of spinning up a single-user Mastodon instance. I've been banned on
Twotter since I created the account 🥲
17:23:17 <MajesticBank> Social networks like twitter and telegram do need some decentralization
17:23:19 <Stnby[m]> Rucknium[m]: I was banned during the CoC adoption period.
17:23:38 <Stnby[m]> * the CoC mass adoption period.
17:24:43 <ajs_[m]> Stnby[m]: i was actually thinking about doing an "invite only" mastodon instance for
monerokon.com as a perk for sponsors, VIP ticket holders, and CCS donors
17:25:29 <Rucknium[m]> *Twitter, I meant. Looks like meeting is over.
17:25:34 <plowsof> we've ran over on time so i will share the on going soloptxmr issue - gitlab comments
[here](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/299#note_19583) and Reddit
[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/yyohle/progress_report_on_ospead_fortifying_monero/
17:25:54 <Stnby[m]> ajs_[m]: Maybe, don't forget the speakers
17:26:06 <plowsof> plenty of reading and reviewing to do ! thank you all for attending
17:27:27 <plowsof> oh hinto
17:27:30 <monerobull[m]> Thanks for hosting!
17:27:50 <plowsof> https://gupax.io/
17:27:50 <nioc> thx plowsof
17:27:56 <Stnby[m]> Oh yeah we will try to look at existing Syllius, Prefix and WooCommerce plugins and maybe
estimate time needed to have this in Metronero and possibly a 3rd milestone, we will be waiting for comments
on the MR. Thank you everyone for feedback
17:28:15 <plowsof> xxx
Automated by this
continued:
17:30:01 <plowsof> unban rayatina yes/no
17:30:25 <MajesticBank> We are gentlemen for some of those "privacy" crypto projects. Was good meeting
17:31:13 <Siren[m]> plowsof: yes, my favorite turk
17:31:50 <ajs_[m]> Stnby: of course, and volunteers as well
17:32:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> <plowsof> "we've ran over on time so i will..." <- Either close it, since its been taken over by a scammer
17:32:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or dont payout until its completed as initially proposed
17:33:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Referring to solopt and mj's repeated attempts to undermine and take advantage of ccs and the community
17:33:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> He claims youre (plowsof) incompetent for not being able to solve the issue
17:34:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> The issue is simple - he tried to pull a fast one again, again, again, and got caught again, again. We've already paid him to go away once
17:34:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Since when does a scammer get to just keep coming back for more, and getting it - simply because we refuse to say "no".
17:35:35 <Siren[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: This time it was way too obvious
17:36:16 <Siren[m]> Why is he refusing to comment on it? He literally was like here you go guys, I removed it now let's not talk about it.
17:37:25 <Siren[m]> The messages where he accuses people of incompetency and then himself hard coding versions without providing hashes was also a bruh moment
17:37:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> And you didnt tell your partner? I mean, employee? I mean, this is my project but im leaving early even though I specifically said I would not
17:38:22 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: I think it would be a better look if he confessed to leaving that in by accident or somehow being half awake at the time of programming and messing up the maths
17:39:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Mj claims its release ready, and in the same sentence called it a release candidate
17:40:18 <Siren[m]> It's too shady
17:40:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anyway.. its a huge waste of everyones time to spend everyday worrying about what mj wants
17:40:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Mj. You deliver the pizza, you get paid. Kapeesh?
17:43:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> "In the most profitable way" 🥹20% net mining rewards loll
Location: Libera.chat, #monero-community | Matrix
Instructions for joining the monero.social Matrix server.
Time 16:00 UTC Check your timezone
Moderator: plowsof
Please reach out in advance of the meeting if you would like to propose an agenda item.
Proposed Meeting Items:
News: Monero Observer - Revuo Monero - The Monero Standard
a. Forgotsudo monero marketplace
b. Develop selfhostable monero payment processor
c. Monero Paper Wallets
d. Metronero checkout
e. selsta part-time monero development (3 months)
f. xmr-btc-swap development and improvement
g. CypherPunk Radio
h. Bulletproofs++ Peer Review
i. j-berman full-time 3 months part 4
j. MoneroShopping
Workgroup reports
a. Dev workgroup b. Localization workgroup c. Outreach workgroup d. Events workgroup - MoneroKon 2023 Call For Presentations https://cfp.monerokon.com/2023/cfp e. Website workgroup f. Policy workgroup g. Research workgroup h. Seraphis Migration workgroup
Previous meeting including logs #747
Meeting logs will be posted here afterwards.