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monero-project / monero-site

https://getmonero.org
BSD 3-Clause "New" or "Revised" License
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remove Cake wallet #2013

Closed moneromooo-monero closed 2 years ago

moneromooo-monero commented 2 years ago

This is a principled removal, on the grounds that the Cake wallet people are squatting the monero.com domain to push a version of Cake wallet they call the "monero.com" wallet.

When called out, representatives of Cake wallet claimed that is is not squatting, despite the fact $project.com is the most canonical domain name possible for a project, and that they are trustworthy, therefore it's fine for them to have that domain (they're a company, the bottom line is what counts, and even if the current owners do believe this, any buyers would turn against us without a second thought). Moreover, they had the audacity to claim I did not complain early enough, as if I was suposed to be keeping track of who owned monero themed domains. Last, they claim that they do mention on the website that it is not the official monero domain. While true, close to nobody reads the web page footer, and they know it full well.

The intent seems glaringly obvious: to dishonestly cause visitors to get their software by making it seem, at least for those people who do not look really hard, that they are the monero project.

Being a company which considers its bottom line, not earning the money they expected to get from this unethical move is likely the only thing that will get them to reconsider any further similar moves, and their wallet being removed from the monero site will help with this.

AFAIK the previous owner of monero.com was some building company, and their registration predated our project, so there was no possible confusion on the part of visitors.

Having worked for the Monero project for YEARS of my life, I feel pretty aggrieved by this dishonesty, and thus I am registering my protest by this patch, which I acknowledge has little change of being merged, since practicalities will likely outweigh ethics. However, I tend to weigh ethics more than practicalities, hence my work on monero for all these years since pretty much its inception.

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selsta commented 2 years ago

I hope monero.com will make it clear to all visitors that they are not the official website, adding a link in the footer and a link in one of the FAQ answers isn't enough. Such a website change should be simple and if done I would be against a removal from the website. Not only are they one of the only iOS wallets, they have also contributed to monero in different ways over past years, which I appreciate. If monero.com insists on keeping the website as is I would reevaluate my opinion.

The second problem is that the current website appears as a neutral website that simply "recommends" the monero.com wallet. This should also be improved. For example https://cakewallet.com makes it clear that this is a wallet website, monero.com should ideally be similar. Then there are no concerns about impersonating the official website.

moneromooo-monero commented 2 years ago

I would grudgingly agree with them keeping squatting if there's something obvious enough on the site that someone coming in thinking it's "the monero site" gets disabused of the notion right away. Of course, they could reverse course at any moment, so this would still not be ideal as the problem could come back any time they decide it's worth the gamble.

erciccione commented 2 years ago

For context, Cake is asking to add monero.com to the "Download" section of getmonero.org: #2007. The proposal is being discussed.

It's hard to not think that monero.com is trying to impersonate getmonero.org. The wordings and placements on the website clearly try to give the impression it's a neutral resource about Monero. This feeling is strengthened by the non-transparent behaviour of Cake, that has initially announced monero.com as a "monero-only wallet", but recently (during the controversy in #2007) it was described differently: a resource to "promote the commercial nature of monero".

This switch, beside being unethical (should have made clear before and displaying only your own products and the products of partners is promoting your own commercial nature, not Monero's), changes things quite drastically, because it rises the already high chances of monero.com being confused for getmonero.org.

Coingecko already mistook monero.com for an official Monero website and listed it as such on their very frequented website, so we already know there are precedents of people/entities making confusion, if that's what happened.

I also want to point out that if monero.com uses any code of the Monero project, they might be in violation of Monero's BSD-3 license, which at point 3 states:

  1. Neither the name of the copyright holder nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.

Cake should do the right thing and at least make very clear at the top of monero.com that the website is not the official website of the monero project, but a resource owned by a third party company. I see why this PR can be seen as extreme and i hope Cake will take the hint and make the changes proposed, otherwise it's hard for me to be against merging this PR, as i see mooo's concerns.

moneromooo-monero commented 2 years ago

I see why this PR can be seen as extreme

I took a week before I did this because I thought it was extreme too, given Cake wallet itself seems totally fine (minus the call home that was mentioned).

However, given the attempts at justification that really pissed me off massively, and the following reasoning, I think it is warranted.

My reasoning is:

Now, I doubt this will make up for the income they'll derive from their squatting, but it's a start. More pressure points being identified would be nice.

r4v3r23 commented 2 years ago

fully support - since cake has obviously tried to use the domain to slyly trick users into thinking its "official", the monero project should take an active stance in disassociating itself from "monero.com" and making it clear to users that it is owned by a company that gathers data and make profit off of users of their app

umma08 commented 2 years ago

In a perfect world, the purchasers of Monero.com would have donated the domain to the Monero project, instead of using the domain to push their for-profit products.

Unfortunately that didn't happen.

Instead, the domain (and the reputation implied through that domain) is being used to brand a wallet (as opposed to the project in its entirety). There are for profit services include in the wallet.

That's how I see it. If I am incorrect, please feel free to correct me.

xdeveloper1782 commented 2 years ago

This is probably the moment where we all decided the cake wallet is over the limit and should be not just restricted on official getmonero.org website but rather everywhere where this official project have any control, hoping its not too late.

I am pretty sure coingecko hadn't listed monero.com on its own rather it was contacted by someone from cakewallet (We all know who is it) using getmonero.org email or similar credentials to list that domain as official on their website.

Abuses coming from cakewallet had started way before from this.

CCS funding is in large part manipulated to finance exclusively cakewallet projects. We were basically feeding this beast all this time. Problematic projects include Monerotopia guy which is actually cool guy but always promotes only cakewallet and the other squated domain wallet, he never ever said anyone to install Monerujo or feather wallet, narrative is that other wallets are there but not good enough. He receives around 10k usd per month from community while monerotalk is basically cakewallet shitshow, they interrupt, they tell everyone what to do and do whatever they want without any over-sight or metrics presented to community.

Another problematic CCS funded project is Monero Observer who very selectively pick their narrative and report about only things that work for cakewallet. if you spend a bit more time you will understand it. Also project never went open-source not allowing others to compete on fair terms.

It is not a question about quality of these projects but the main beneficiary which is more cakewallet than monero community which is always a step into wrong direction and harms monero eco-system in long term.

Magic monero thing obviously attempt to remove community from the project to their own KYC narrative and wishes.

Not sure at this point who is owner of Twitter and telegram monero project account however they are both biassed towards cakewallet. Since recently its obvious sethforprivacy is controlling twitter since every second post is about Viksharma and even worse Justin interview about monero with "monero.com" picture. So basically twitter is fully under control.

Telegram seems controlled by person named needmoney90 and absolutely its impossible to say anything that doesn't fit the narrative "cakewallet is the best" which makes it highly censored, which is totally against monero nature. As you might notice previous and current pull request never reach the general population because of the shill army.

There is and also obvious supression of second-opinion anywhere where it matters and not under control of the cakewallet team. That's how group https://t.me/MoneroExchangeRun became apply only and MoneroKon 2022 group terminated.

Someone will say put "Tin foil hats" now but sadly reddit votes and posts are highly manipulated, telegram also very much. There is an obvious shill pattern in every "which wallet is better but I use IOS" post. Thing that most bothered me were the attacks to the Haveno developers using shill army, even to send them treats creating hate in the Monero community which never ever existed before.

If I receive approval will include exactly who is and how connected to cakewallet from monero contributors so that my post doesn't turn into personal attack against someone.

It would be all most probably forgiven if cakewallet was not least privacy oriented monero wallet pinging home and removing all community nodes from the wallet making it highly centralized and not private at all for average user. Everything in the wallet is high KYC and holds really unexplained privacy risks involved. I am not going to mention how under suspicious terms people lost a lot of money due to usage of 12 words seed which some of them were not recovered until today (12 words seeds actually work even today and not broken) Cakewallet and "monero.com" holds same codebase and same size, difference in code is nothing but few ifs which renders the design different and do not display other currencies. "Community" asked for it its their very own sethforprivacy writting on the twitter for that wallet after zcash thing, so there is nothing community here that's all business.

This is sadly not one time mistake by long time planned effort by people not respecting this coin and this community. If I would know better these people are preparing a fork or something similar.

getmonero.org is last standing neutral ground which is why I needed to pass this message along.

P.S. Did they donated money? Probably yes to places where they needed to control. But I also have to say privacy doesn't have its price and one entity should not have this much control over the community.

Even if they are just greedy and not malicious or state-sponsored.

selsta commented 2 years ago

I am pretty sure coingecko hadn't listed monero.com on its own rather it was contacted by someone from cakewallet (We all know who is it) using getmonero.org email or similar credentials to list that domain as official on their website.

This shouldn't be too difficult to figure out, as far as I know fluffy is in contact with someone from coingecko.

CCS funding is in large part manipulated to finance exclusively cakewallet projects.

Nonsense. Almost everything gets merged and funded with the CCS, and if you mean Justin running the community meetings he stepped down from this position years ago. @plowsof did it for a while and he definitely isn't influenced by Cake wallet.

He receives around 10k usd per month from community while monerotalk is basically cakewallet shitshow, they interrupt, they tell everyone what to do and do whatever they want without any over-sight or metrics presented to community.

He never requested a single payout from his CCS to this day, so saying he receives 10k / month from the community is inaccurate.

Another problematic CCS funded project is Monero Observer who very selectively pick their narrative and report about only things that work for cakewallet.

I disagree, just read their story about this pull request.

It would be all most probably forgiven if cakewallet was not least privacy oriented monero wallet pinging home and removing all community nodes from the wallet making it highly centralized and not private at all for average user.

Everyone can add their own node and saying using Cake is "not private at all" is disingenuous. You don't lose all privacy suddenly when the app queries the fiat price, especially when you can also use a VPN on your phone. I don't follow Cake development, but I hope someone opened an issue about it here: https://github.com/cake-tech/cake_wallet/issues

I hope we can go back to the monero.com website discussion now, as this got a bit off topic.

SamouraiDev commented 2 years ago

Fully support.

CakeWallet commented 2 years ago

This is a principled removal, on the grounds that the Cake wallet people are squatting the monero.com domain to push a version of Cake wallet they call the "monero.com" wallet.

When called out, representatives of Cake wallet claimed that is is not squatting, despite the fact $project.com is the most canonical domain name possible for a project, and that they are trustworthy, therefore it's fine for them to have that domain (they're a company, the bottom line is what counts, and even if the current owners do believe this, any buyers would turn against us without a second thought). Moreover, they had the audacity to claim I did not complain early enough, as if I was suposed to be keeping track of who owned monero themed domains. Last, they claim that they do mention on the website that it is not the official monero domain. While true, close to nobody reads the web page footer, and they know it full well.

The intent seems glaringly obvious: to dishonestly cause visitors to get their software by making it seem, at least for those people who do not look really hard, that they are the monero project.

Being a company which considers its bottom line, not earning the money they expected to get from this unethical move is likely the only thing that will get them to reconsider any further similar moves, and their wallet being removed from the monero site will help with this.

AFAIK the previous owner of monero.com was some building company, and their registration predated our project, so there was no possible confusion on the part of visitors.

Having worked for the Monero project for YEARS of my life, I feel pretty aggrieved by this dishonesty, and thus I am registering my protest by this patch, which I acknowledge has little change of being merged, since practicalities will likely outweigh ethics. However, I tend to weigh ethics more than practicalities, hence my work on monero for all these years since pretty much its inception.

Hi Moneromooo,

Thanks for the post and voicing your concerns. Firstly, we are not “squatting” on the site and frankly that's an unfair statement. I bought it fair and square from the open market just like you or anyone else could’ve done. It was sitting for sale on godaddy for many years. We do not claim or pretend to be the official site. We made it as a commercial site for Monero in general and for various products.

Having said that, I am open to selling the domain monero.com to the Monero core team at cost (no profit/no loss to me), under the condition it be used only to redirect to the official site which is basically what you want. If core doesn't buy it, then I may consider listing it in the open market and then anyone, maybe you or other community members, can buy it.

Until then to address your and others' concern, we are adding a large banner at the top which further makes it clear that it is not the official community site with a link to redirect to the official site. I would like your input and review on that when its live.

Regarding removal of Cake Wallet due to the above doesn’t make sense to me as its a different unrelated issue. If we are going to stop listing open source Monero wallets on the official site, it would be very counter productive for increasing Monero adoption. This is not about Cake or monero.com wallets. I will fight for ANY open source Monero wallet to get listed on the official site. The more the merrier. As you know we used to do events co-hosted with MyMonero, which I hope to do again. I personally donated to Monerujo. People need options.

We believe that with the clear banner and the offer to sell at cost to core, we've addressed your most important concerns. As always, I'm available for discussions and ideas.

Vik

Cactii1 commented 2 years ago

Having said that, I am open to selling the domain monero.com to the Monero core team at cost (no profit/no loss to me), under the condition it be used only to redirect to the official site which is basically what you want. If core doesn't buy it, then I may consider listing it in the open market and then anyone, maybe you or other community members, can buy it.

This shows Vik's good faith and I think that it would be a very good move for this purchase to be done and the funds to come out of the General Fund as soon as possible.

selsta commented 2 years ago

There is no way the general fund has 300k-400k to buy a domain name. That's like half the general fund.

Cactii1 commented 2 years ago

@CakeWallet Can you confirm that the monero.com domain sold for $316,250 USD?

SamsungGalaxyPlayer commented 2 years ago

The total cost that Cake paid including fees is around $400,000.

CakeWallet commented 2 years ago

@CakeWallet Can you confirm that the monero.com domain sold for $316,250 USD?

plus 20% for Godaddy's brokerage fees. I can check exact amount, but yes close to $400k.

Cactii1 commented 2 years ago

In case anybody was wondering - this is how monero.com appears in search results.

cakelabs

CakeWallet commented 2 years ago

In case anybody was wondering - this is how monero.com appears in search results.

cakelabs

And banner on top coming up shortly. Just waiting on devs to push it to live.

EDIT: Its live now.

SamsungGalaxyPlayer commented 2 years ago

Now live at the top of monero.com:

image

umma08 commented 2 years ago

I am open to selling the domain monero.com to the Monero core team at cost (no profit/no loss to me), under the condition it be used only to redirect to the official site which is basically what you want.

Can the core team/project pay in installments over a medium (10-15 year) term?

ChristopherKing42 commented 2 years ago

@SamsungGalaxyPlayer

Now live at the top of monero.com:

image

FYI: it does not appear on mobile

erciccione commented 2 years ago

Some thoughts:

ChristopherKing42 commented 2 years ago

Turns out that "Monero" has been recently trademarked.

Where are you getting this info? According to https://trademark.trademarkia.com/monero-86339137.html @fluffypony used to have the trademark, but abandoned it.

Cactii1 commented 2 years ago

I'm not privy to the conversation between flufflypony and Cakewallet about Monero being trademarked.

While I'm sure that it was for good intentions, I have very high doubts that fluffypony would be able to fruitfully defend that trademark in a court of law.

Come on, fluffypony's Monero Distribution Corporation was registered in Delaware in 2021 (do Delaware Corporations unfairly get a bum rap).

johnr365 commented 2 years ago

Monero is trademarked and cake recently realized that

@erciccione - this isn't quite accurate, based on my understanding.

There is US application pending to trademark the word Monero in the context of "communication systems", and this is made by "Monero Distribution Corp" a Delaware registered entity that one or more of the Core team own.

See: https://trademark.trademarkia.com/monero-97195058.html & https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=4807:dw30vw.4.1

Afaik intention behind the trademark application is to defend the use of the word.

I suppose an alternate scenario would be a bad actor getting hold of the trademark and then causing headaches for projects in the ecosystem who want to use the word.

CakeWallet commented 2 years ago

Monero is trademarked and cake recently realized that

@erciccione - this isn't quite accurate, based on my understanding.

There is US application pending to trademark the word Monero in the context of "communication systems", and this is made by "Monero Distribution Corp" a Delaware registered entity that one or more of the Core team own.

See: https://trademark.trademarkia.com/monero-97195058.html & https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=4807:dw30vw.4.1

Afaik intention behind the trademark application is to defend the use of the word.

I suppose an alternate scenario would be a bad actor getting hold of the trademark and then causing headaches for projects in the ecosystem who want to use the word

I'm not privy to the conversation between flufflypony and Cakewallet about Monero being trademarked.

While I'm sure that it was for good intentions, I have very high doubts that fluffypony would be able to fruitfully defend that trademark in a court of law.

Come on, fluffypony's Monero Distribution Corporation was registered in Delaware in 2021 (do Delaware Corporations unfairly get a bum rap).

You are absolutely right. This guy has no idea what he is talking about and I'm seriously getting tired of his assumptions he's making on our intentions and now downright lies on what fluffy and I talked about. Btw, It was about the fucking banner vs splash page redirecting people to getmonero and you can verify with fluffy. We never even discussed the trademark. In fact, I have never discussed that with anyone. Also, my suggestion to sell to core team also had nothing to do with patent. I didn't even know about it when I offered to sell. That guy above is really showing who he is and how he operates more than anything in this whole ordeal.

CakeWallet commented 2 years ago

Monero is trademarked and cake recently realized that

@erciccione - this isn't quite accurate, based on my understanding.

There is US application pending to trademark the word Monero in the context of "communication systems", and this is made by "Monero Distribution Corp" a Delaware registered entity that one or more of the Core team own.

See: https://trademark.trademarkia.com/monero-97195058.html & https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=4807:dw30vw.4.1

Afaik intention behind the trademark application is to defend the use of the word.

I suppose an alternate scenario would be a bad actor getting hold of the trademark and then causing headaches for projects in the ecosystem who want to use the word.

Yeah he has no idea what he is talking about. And as I said above I'm getting tired of his lies and accusations.

rottenwheel commented 2 years ago

A brief comment, if I may. There's no need to start talking about selling domain in question to Core, brainstorm on possible ways to cover its cost, or engage in the "cancel culture" antics generally orchestrated by a certain character, IMHO. Either intentionally or unintentionally, we are playing divide & conquer against ourselves, but I digress.

The issue at hand could be that Cake Labs is releasing and promoting their open source, XMR-only wallet as "Monero.com"; granted, as stated in a previous comment, on search engines it reads "Monero.com by Cake Wallet", just not quite sure that is enough. Hard to make everyone happy. Perhaps Cake could consider rebranding it with a unique name, to avoid the possible misinterpretation by newcomers, outsiders; while keeping the domain, using it as they best see fit and ensuring via banners, et. al. that it is not the "official" Monero project site.

All that because at the end of the day, Cake Labs is a company and some hardcore FLOSS community members or contributors seem hesitant about the tentative confusion of Monero, the project, with Cake, a company.

Just 2 cents. Let's strive to find solutions or middle grounds of understanding, not create more issues. Feel free to downvote, redact, reject, kick and ban.

CakeWallet commented 2 years ago

A brief comment, if I may. There's no need to start talking about selling domain in question to Core, brainstorm on possible ways to cover its cost, or engage in the "cancel culture" antics generally orchestrated by a certain character, IMHO. Either intentionally or unintentionally, we are playing divide & conquer against ourselves, but I digress.

The issue at hand could be that Cake Labs is releasing and promoting their open source, XMR-only wallet as "Monero.com"; granted, as stated in a previous comment, on search engines it reads "Monero.com by Cake Wallet", just not quite sure that is enough. Hard to make everyone happy. Perhaps Cake could consider rebranding it with a unique name, to avoid the possible misinterpretation by newcomers, outsiders; while keeping the domain, using it as they best see fit and ensuring via banners, et. al. that it is not the "official" Monero project site.

All that because at the end of the day, Cake Labs is a company and some hardcore FLOSS community members or contributors seem hesitant about the tentative confusion of Monero, the project, with Cake, a company.

Just 2 cents. Let's strive to find solutions or middle grounds of understanding, not create more issues. Feel free to downvote, redact, reject, kick and ban.

Thanks for this. We are trying to work with the community to change the site - which doesn't happen overnight. Everyone is being cooperative except one person telling lies and insane assumptions, which as I said shows their personality more than anything else.

I also thought about changing the app name, but with the site changes coming up, there is probably not a need.

Thanks again for the cool headed sane reply.

moneromooo-monero commented 2 years ago

I'm of two minds. On the one hand, there's a message at the top (at least for me, it seems it may not appear on most people's screens, from a message above) which should protect visitors, so that is good. However, a few comments of yours give me pause:

Firstly, we are not “squatting” on the site and frankly that's an unfair statement.

It is MONERO.com. Is it dead to rights slam dunk squatting.

I bought it fair and square from the open market just like you or anyone else could’ve done.

Squatting does not mean getting the site without paying for it. It's having a site for your stuff on a site named for another project/company/brand/group/whatever. Just because I or the core team did not buy it does not mean that we're suddenly OK with you guys passing off as us.

We do not claim or pretend to be the official site.

This one is correct. You were most likely hoping people will be induced to think it is without you having to spell it out. The message at the top should fix this.

Having said that, I am open to selling the domain monero.com

While others do whatever they want, I would not want to pay a cent for it. I'd be perfectly happy for there to be no site on it, since it's the squatting/impersonation (note quite the right word, but close enough for now) that incensed me, not the lack of access to this domain for my (or core's) own uses.

If core doesn't buy it, then I may consider listing it in the open market and then anyone, maybe you or other community members, can buy it.

That awfully sounds like blackmail and basically hinting witohut saying it that if you don't get to continue with this, it'll be used by people who'll do more damage.

Anyway, I think if the message is confirmed to display on mobile, I will be grudingly OK enough to close this PR (but will open it again if you try something like this again).

CakeWallet commented 2 years ago

I'm of two minds. On the one hand, there's a message at the top (at least for me, it seems it may not appear on most people's screens, from a message above) which should protect visitors, so that is good. However, a few comments of yours give me pause:

Firstly, we are not “squatting” on the site and frankly that's an unfair statement.

It is MONERO.com. Is it dead to rights slam dunk squatting.

I bought it fair and square from the open market just like you or anyone else could’ve done.

Squatting does not mean getting the site without paying for it. It's having a site for your stuff on a site named for another project/company/brand/group/whatever. Just because I or the core team did not buy it does not mean that we're suddenly OK with you guys passing off as us.

We do not claim or pretend to be the official site.

This one is correct. You were most likely hoping people will be induced to think it is without you having to spell it out. The message at the top should fix this.

Having said that, I am open to selling the domain monero.com

While others do whatever they want, I would not want to pay a cent for it. I'd be perfectly happy for there to be no site on it, since it's the squatting/impersonation (note quite the right word, but close enough for now) that incensed me, not the lack of access to this domain for my (or core's) own uses.

If core doesn't buy it, then I may consider listing it in the open market and then anyone, maybe you or other community members, can buy it.

That awfully sounds like blackmail and basically hinting witohut saying it that if you don't get to continue with this, it'll be used by people who'll do more damage.

Anyway, I think if the message is confirmed to display on mobile, I will be grudingly OK enough to close this PR (but will open it again if you try something like this again).

Thanks. Not only the bug about the banner now showing on mobile, but we are working on other changes requested. Also, my plan is to do a radical redesign to make it clear this site is about the app and not about monero in general. Other features such as the exchange, block explorer, other merchants, events, etc, will be secondary.

Also selling it in the open market is not blackmail. Why would I continue wanting to own something which is causing me and everyone grief? In fact the whole thing is making me sad more than anything. Its better to be rid of it. Anyway, I do not intend to sell now, but make the changes above you and others have asked for. Thanks for your cooperation and compromise.

moneromooo-monero commented 2 years ago

Why would I continue wanting to own something which is causing me and everyone grief?

Perfect. This is the reaction I intended to cause. It will now hopefully trigger if you ever want to do something dodgy like this again, and will save you from making the same mistake twice.

CakeWallet commented 2 years ago

Why would I continue wanting to own something which is causing me and everyone grief?

Perfect. This is the reaction I intended to cause. It will now hopefully trigger if you ever want to do something dodgy like this again, and will save you from making the same mistake twice.

Thanks Moneromooo. I do appreciate your comments and working with us on this. But I really do not appreciate the accusation that our intention was to do something dodgy. Our intention was indeed to make a monero site that was non-techie with features that the community site doesn't offer. However, we see that is not taken well so we will change it. You can say we are being pressured or threatened, or you can say we are working with the community AS WE HAVE ALWAYS done. In fact the redesign was under works for a few months already. Our designer had already proposed us many new redesigns in Figma, but we changed focus to the gift cards. Thank you again for all the work you have done for monero, it would not be what it is today with your sole contributions. Also, thanks for helping the cake team in the early days when we ran into problems. Give us time, but we will get the site rectified.

moneromooo-monero commented 2 years ago

Well, I am not privy to your state of mind, all I can say is that it looks a lot like it. It could have looked like "it seemed like a good idea at the time" until the multiple attempts at explaining it away (which contributed a LOT to pissing me off). But hey, if there is a clear warning at the top, you get your extra clicks and visitors still know they're on a third party site, so acceptable compromise.

CakeWallet commented 2 years ago

Well, I am not privy to your state of mind, all I can say is that it looks a lot like it. It could have looked like "it seemed like a good idea at the time" until the multiple attempts at explaining it away (which contributed a LOT to pissing me off). But hey, if there is a clear warning at the top, you get your extra clicks and visitors still know they're on a third party site, so acceptable compromise.

Thank you.

jwinterm commented 2 years ago

Thanks for the post and voicing your concerns. Firstly, we are not “squatting” on the site and frankly that's an unfair statement. I bought it fair and square from the open market just like you or anyone else could’ve done.

You obtained it legally, not sure buying the canonical domain of an open source project, one that you've already profited from handsomely, should be called "fair and square". Especially when it seems obvious that you bought it to increase revenue for your for-profit company that is built on the foundation of this open source, volunteer run project. These are subjective terms, and obviously some very important contributors disagree with your diction. The only coin this has happened very publicly with in the past was Bitcoin, and the current owner of bitcoin.com is a pariah. The quote "You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole" comes to mind.

moneromooo-monero commented 2 years ago

Closing, the new message at the top seems an acceptable enough compromise. Without prejudice though.

moneromooo-monero commented 2 years ago

Oh, and calling your wallet "the monero.com wallet" IS a similar, unless you add a disclaimer to the name too. Anything which is intended to mislead (or thought likely by a reasonable person to be misleading) should be fixed. For the avoidance of doubt, adding ".com" to X means X in the mind of most reasonable people. So calling your wallet "monero cake" or "cake monero" is fine, but "monero.com" isn't. But I guess "the monero.com wallet by cake" would do. Just use common sense.

Thanks

HardenedSteel commented 2 years ago

Even monero.com domain was belong to Monero Project it would mislead newcomers, because they would think Monero has CEO, owner or something else and think monero.com is Monero's official website instead Monero Project's official site. Something like MoneroProject.org would be better for Monero Project.

r4v3r23 commented 2 years ago

Oh, and calling your wallet "the monero.com wallet" IS a similar, unless you add a disclaimer to the name too. Anything which is intended to mislead (or thought likely by a reasonable person to be misleading) should be fixed. For the avoidance of doubt, adding ".com" to X means X in the mind of most reasonable people. So calling your wallet "monero cake" or "cake monero" is fine, but "monero.com" isn't. But I guess "the monero.com wallet by cake" would do. Just use common sense.

Thanks

agree

stillhuntingshorts commented 2 years ago

There is no way the general fund has 300k-400k to buy a domain name. That's like half the general fund.

We are Monero

888tNk.... +****.0089

stillhuntingshorts commented 2 years ago

89 ty thank you devs

binaryFate commented 2 years ago

There is no way the general fund has 300k-400k to buy a domain name. That's like half the general fund.

We are Monero

888tNk.... +****.0089

Let me check/discuss internally, we'll come back to you.

nahuhh commented 7 months ago

@plowsof @HardenedSteel @rottenwheel

would one of you care to reopen and merge this?

cakes fucking around and added a new feature to call home. i complained. They made it opt out.

fucking nonsense coming from the top recommended app.

SamsungGalaxyPlayer commented 7 months ago

The fiat API is also enabled by default. A remote node is provided by default. Useful features are enabled by default, and you can easily turn them off or pick something else. This isn't something malicious or new.

If you want a completely featureless wallet, there are better wallets for you. But most people don't want a barren option.

nahuhh commented 7 months ago

The fiat API is also enabled by default.

no it isnt. Is toggleable by default

A remote node is provided by default.

which is only half good. Centralizing users to 1 node allows for bs like tx failing because everyone is using a central point of failure.

Useful features are enabled by default,

no, they neither enabled or disabled. They are opt in.

and you can easily turn them off or pick something else. This isn't something malicious or new.

stfu. My wallet started cling home on its own after an update. gfy

If you want a completely featureless wallet, there are better wallets for you. But most people don't want a barren option.

Yeah. There are. And i have no problem watching cake lose its #1 slot because of spyware bs that you defend (everytime).

the only thing cake has going for it over other mobile wallets, is subaccounts.

nahuhh commented 7 months ago

And to add to @moneromooo-monero comment aboutonero.com squatting

@SamsungGalaxyPlayer is squatting and promoting getmonero.dev now too. SGP isnt a part of cake, so nothing to do with them. Just thought id mention that this joker has ulterior motives. Fkn fed (moonstoneresearch + you promote bs privacy practices)

edit: larping about "useful" features. this junk bullshit doesnt even give accurate info and relies on a human to send out updates. "all-time high in the mempool" is peak fiction brother. and its called a txpool, btw. fucking useLESS feature.

"xmr experiencing growth issues" no. Your centralized node network is just trash. Maybe you guys need help configuring nodes, bcuz clearly youre running them without proper load balancing.

also, mr moonstone, are you really so clueless as to not know that public nodes were actively being targeted? Was no coincidence that cakes nodes went down.

nahuhh commented 7 months ago

Not to mention, the spyware bs could have been implemented cleanly. But no. Cake just added a new clearnet call home, and then made it opt-out.

foh

nahuhh commented 7 months ago

Pay attention, sgp https://github.com/cake-tech/cake_wallet/pull/1347#issuecomment-2016794981

r4v3r23 commented 7 months ago

@nahuhh glad to see you're finally seeing the light after defending cakes spyware "fix" for so long