Naming of "aux" and "insert" in system audio menu

[emenel]

Question:

• Is there a reason that "aux" and "insert" in the system audio menu are not named for their function?

In the manual, and based on what they do, it seems like "aux" is only reverb, and "insert" is only the compressor. Are there future plans to expand the aux and insert options? If not I would suggest naming them more clearly in relation to what they do.

It might also make sense to do this for any future system level effects, as internal routing in this menu system could be confusing and more complex than necessary.

I suggest renaming "aux" to "reverb" and "insert" to "compressor" as well as updating the parameters with the same type of clear nomenclature.

My suggested changes:

Reverb: rev: on/off rev engine level: engine output -> aux input rev input 1 level: input 1 -> aux input rev input 2 level: input 2 -> aux input rev input 1 pan: pan for input 1 rev input 2 pan: pan for input 2 rev output level: aux output -> main output

rev pre delay: reverb delay time rev lf x: reverb low frequency crossover rev low time: reverb low time rev mid time: reverb mid time rev hf damping: reverb high frequency damping

Compressor: comp: on/off comp mix: dry/wet (dry = 0.0, wet = 1.0) comp ratio: compressor ratio comp thresh: compressor threshold comp attack: compressor attack time comp release: compressor release time comp makeup: compressor makeup gain

[catfact]

Are there future plans to expand the aux and insert options?

yes. this could easily be opened up for customization just like Engines (or in fact be instances of engines.) we may also want to add to the existing hardcoded effects chains.

"aux" and "insert" accurately describe the functions of the two busses.

[emenel]

At the moment they are not busses though, they are single effects.

Does that concept of a bus make sense inside of Norns? I'm not so sure. Managing internal routing, building chains, etc, could be very complex at the system level and might be better as part of individual scripts. If this is the plan I'd love to see how the interface is being envisioned.

If we want master effects like reverb and compression are they really busses? Or are they just master effects?

I find the current naming and structure confusing.

[emenel]

(for example, the way delay is handled in foulplay makes sense to me as an effect that you can "send" your tracks to)

[catfact]

yes, they are really busses. (well, the aux bus is; "insert" indicates that there is no dedicated bus for the compressor / whatever else we add to master fx chain.) you can send any signal to the aux bus from any engine, in addition to the hardcoded routes from inputs and outputs.

i agree that "insert" would better be named "master."

[catfact]

i also don't actually care what the menu says, and am only responding to your questions.

[tehn]

agreed that the naming is confusing right now given there aren't options to change the aux or insert effect.

we decided an open naming would allow future changes, ie, a system for changing which aux/insert effect, or even chaining several together.

the routing capabilities are full-featured. we just need a bit more plumbing to allow for switchable aux/insert effects. and then chaining would be another feature addition. there aren't yet git issues for these feature changes.

but perhaps some of the naming could change and still maintain the possibility of future aux/insert fx changes?

[catfact]

obvs if you just want to change what the menu says this is both easy to do, and easy to revert

[emenel]

Thanks for the replies @catfact and @tehn.

I see what you mean, and love the idea of future flexibility for adding custom effects (although I'm still not sure how the ui would support it, or would that be done in Matron?)

One other potentially useful things as these params menus get complex is some additional way of defining sections/subsections of the params. Something that shows ...

Aux

• Reverb

Master

• Comp

... could be really helpful for adding clarity to the ways that menu items interact with each other.

How about something like this to clear up some naming while retaining the idea of "aux" and "insert":

Reverb: aux fx: on/off aux engine level: engine output -> aux input aux input 1 level: input 1 -> aux input aux input 2 level: input 2 -> aux input aux input 1 pan: pan for input 1 aux input 2 pan: pan for input 2 aux output level: aux output -> main output

rev pre delay: reverb delay time rev lf x-over: reverb low frequency crossover rev low time: reverb low time rev mid time: reverb mid time rev hf damping: reverb high frequency damping

Master: master fx: on/off master fx mix: dry/wet (dry = 0.0, wet = 1.0)

comp ratio: compressor ratio comp thresh: compressor threshold comp attack: compressor attack time comp release: compressor release time comp makeup: compressor makeup gain

[tehn]

adding a HEADING field in parameter sets (to separate groupings) would be a nice addition (currently we only have SEPARATOR which is the three dashes)

made an issue, it's a good idea: https://github.com/monome/norns/issues/491

[tehn]

if you agree, i'd like to close this issue in favor of #491 ?

[catfact]

(although I'm still not sure how the ui would support it,

probably something one would have to customize at the script level.

[emenel]

Agreed.

In the short term could I suggest some quick language changes to this current menu?

• "aux output level" : "aux engine level" (current wording isn't clear that this is about how much of the engine audio to send)
• "rev in delay" : "rev pre delay" (more common on reverb effects)
• "rev low rt60"/"mid rt60" : "rev [low/mid] time" (more consistent with other reverbs, took me some googling to figure out what rt60 means)

[tehn]

issue re: swappable aux/insert: https://github.com/monome/norns/issues/492