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morphgnt / sblgnt

morphological tagging of the SBL Greek New Testament
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handling of ὕστερον #13

Open jtauber opened 10 years ago

jtauber commented 10 years ago

adjective or adverb?

jtauber commented 8 years ago

related to https://github.com/morphgnt/sblgnt/issues/32

jtauber commented 8 years ago

Using ὕστερον as lemma:

62-Mk-morphgnt.txt:021614 A- ----ASNC Ὕστερον Ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον
64-Jn-morphgnt.txt:041336 A- ----ASNC ὕστερον⸃. ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον
79-Heb-morphgnt.txt:191211 A- ----ASNC ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον

Using ὕστερος as lemma:

61-Mt-morphgnt.txt:010402 A- ----ASNC ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερος
61-Mt-morphgnt.txt:012129 A- ----ASNC ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερος
61-Mt-morphgnt.txt:012132 A- ----ASNC ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερος
61-Mt-morphgnt.txt:012137 A- ----ASNC ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερος
61-Mt-morphgnt.txt:012227 A- ----ASNC ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερος
61-Mt-morphgnt.txt:012511 A- ----ASNC ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερος
61-Mt-morphgnt.txt:012660 A- ----ASNC ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερος
63-Lk-morphgnt.txt:032032 A- ----ASNC ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερον ὕστερος
75-1Ti-morphgnt.txt:150401 A- ----DPMC ὑστέροις ὑστέροις ὑστέροις ὕστερος

It doesn't appear any of them are tagged as adverbs any more, which makes the inconsistent lemma even worse.

emg commented 8 years ago

Doesn't the 'C' mean 'Comparative'? If so, that is (I believe) wrong. Thayer says, under U(/STEROS:

"U(/STEROS, U(/STERA, U(/STERON, latter, later, coming after "

...

"Neut. U(/STERON, fr. Homer down, adverbially, afterward, after this, later, lastly, used alike of a shorter and of a longer period.

So, it should probably be tagged as an adverb in most cases, since it has been used like that since Homer.

It is, however, wise to check each instance, which I might do :-).

jtauber commented 8 years ago

Well, I want to drop the C everywhere anyway but that's a separate issue :-)

Regarding this particular case, I think what's at issue is not the C but whether it's an adjective or an adverb formed from the neuter adjective.

It's one of those cases of the lemmatization and analysis taking different choices.

It's either the adverb ὕστερον or the adjective ὕστερος. It can't be the adjective ὕστερον.

emg commented 8 years ago

Exactly.

jtauber commented 8 years ago

@emg so what do you think? Should the three already lemmatized ὕστερον be changed to D- -------- or should some of the others be changed in the lemma too?

jtauber commented 8 years ago

I just checked the first three and they definitely all seem adverbial.

jtauber commented 8 years ago

But the subsequent ones I've checked seem adverbial too :-(

jtauber commented 8 years ago

Okay, I've checked them all and have come to the conclusion that with the exception of the 1Ti case, ALL are adverbial.

jtauber commented 8 years ago

I think the short-term solution is one of:

  1. change the first three lemmas to ὕστερος (essentially just saying this is formally an accusative neuter singular adjective)
  2. change all but 1Ti to D- -------- and a lemma of ὕστερον

Either way that resolves the immediate inconsistency even though it doesn't solve the bigger problem.

jtauber commented 8 years ago

FWIW, LSJ, BDAG and Danker CL all seem to group these in a single lexical entry whose headword favours going with option 1.

jtauber commented 8 years ago

I'm leaning towards 2 for the moment, though, as it seems more consistent with the rest of the MorphGNT analysis and I'd like to hold off changing everything.