Z-offset affects bed mesh creation in Ender3S1 with F4 SoC

[abra5umente]

Describe the bug When levelling with a z-offset of anything other than 0, it affects the way the mesh is produced. Consistently reads one side MUCH higher than the other, seems to flip around from side to side too.

To Reproduce Steps to reproduce the behavior:

1. Perform a manual tramming using a feeler gauge or piece of paper.
2. Set a Z-offset in the menu (either by babystepping or by using the wizard)
3. Perform an auto level procedure (I leave the bed off, but doesn't seem to make a difference)
4. Note how one side will be particularly higher than the other, or there will be random valleys and hills in the mesh that you know aren't there.
5. Clear the z-offset back to 0
6. Restart the printer
7. Home the printer
8. Perform a bed level procedure again
9. Note how the mesh is more "true to life" and the results are much different.

Expected behavior The z-offset should not affect the measurements of the bed.

Screenshots My glass bed with a smooth, flat surface, same as read on my other printer with a BLTouch. I have also verified the CRTouch on that printer which performs the same as the BLTouch

Version (please complete the following information): Latest firmware, 2.1.0.1, build date May 27th 2022. Ender 3 S1 with F4 chip.

Additional context Have tried using BLTouch with same results. Tried with heating and not heating the bed, have verified that there is no power backfeed from Raspberry Pi 4 to printer (using electrical tape over the power pins).

[hayden-t]

so you made a mesh with the probe at 0 offset ? and then saved the mesh and the lines under your z are blue when printing ?

[grrmisfit]

so you made a mesh with the probe at 0 offset ? and then saved the mesh and the lines under your z are blue when printing ?

Yes, and if you go manual tramming vs wizard the wizard is always wrong. If I level the corners via wizard then test using manual it'd to tight on one side and to high on others

[hayden-t]

so you are doing manual or wizard tramming with the probe mounted at 0 with my mount and have the offset in settings to 0 too ?

[KBalage]

I have an Ender3 S1 Plus with F4. I'm creating a mesh, tested it with HS on/off, MP to 2, then 1, doesn't matter: I can see the mesh in the View Mesh menu, it's maybe valid, maybe not (I think it's correct).

But my feeling is that it's simply doesn't move the steppers to adapt to the stored mesh during printing of the 1st layer.

I have watched very closely my stepper rods during a bigger print and while I had the Z blinking (with blue lines) and the Z height was changing on the display - yet I haven't seen the Z rods moving during the whole 1st layer, only for Z hops during retraction.

[mhaas]

There is a new hypothesis: Electromagnetic Interference. Details here: https://github.com/mhaas/ender-3-s1/wiki/Automatic-Bed-Leveling-Issues#the-emi-hypothesis

Thanks to @Snolte1001.

A possible worksround is to build with PROBING_ESTEPPERS_OFF.

Would be great if someone can try this!

[KBalage]

I will test the PROBING_ESTEPPERS_OFF. And I have ordered an SKRME3V3 too...

[KBalage]

So I've tested the PROBING_ESTEPPERS_OFF and not convinced... I still can see the same mesh data regardless of using HT or multiple probing or any of these combinations. I had a weird issue after recompiling the firmware - the printer started with High temp - printer killed (after cold start), but then recompiling and updating it again it was ok (same error: https://github.com/mriscoc/Ender3V2S1/issues/501).

I've probably have a bed with a little defect, the front and the back part of the bed are much higher than the middle for some reason.

I'm using M420 in my starting code, Z is blinking, the mesh view shows almost the same values (despite testing a lot of ways), yet the first layer is not perfect, too low on same areas, too high on others, like the mesh simply doesn't taken into consideration or I have a completely different bed in reality than it was recognized during the levelling procedure.

Waiting for the SKRME3V3 ... thinking on Bed Distance Sensor... meanwhile printing only on the middle...

[mhaas]

I also did some tests today with PROBING_ESTEPPERS_OFF and/or PROBING_STEPPERS_OFF

Results here: https://github.com/mhaas/ender-3-s1/wiki/Automatic-Bed-Leveling-Issues#testing

I don't think this is the big improvement I have been looking for :)

[Snolte1001]

Hello, from me is the post on Facebook ! During my tests, I had the cable of the CR/BL touch completely laid separately, it was so that the X stepper also caused interference, so the deactivation of the extruder stepper can not necessarily lead to hoped for success. To deactivate the X stepper during the measurement is rather problematic ;-)

[s4ndm4ns]

I can confirm that after I set my z-offset to 0 and did automatic bed tramm + mesh 5x5 it was much much better. All I had to do was to set proper z-offset afterwards and print 5x5 test 1st layer, maybe 3-4 points where I adjusted mesh manually by 0.01 and now I have better setup than ever before.

[KBalage]

I had a gantry leveling problem - the right part of the X axis was ~0.4 mm lower than the left part. I can see this happening even on my picture above in this thread btw, what I don't understand is why the first and last Y line doesn't affected, and why I have the 1st and last line much higher than the rest of the bed. Nevertheless I've fixed the X axis, because that was surely wrong. I've also downloaded and using the UBL version for F4 and it's working a bit better - I'll test printing on different areas of the bed, but at least I can see now that the Z rods are doing some job during a bigger print.

[MarkforU]

I put timing belts on my z-rods, which I run 2 machines. You won't have the problem with height control, and yes UBL does help, but getting your x-gantry straight if running duel z-rods you'll fight that forever on the right side being higher or lower until you put a timing belt on it. I've been going 2 weeks Non stop on 2 printers knocking out Chinese Flexi Dragons that sit up and have 67 parts that finish as one. Fidget spinners and stars for 18 grandchildren. For the dragon I do use the 9x9 mesh even though they say 5x5 is enough. Keep printing 24/7 off original mesh using UBL...

[grrmisfit]

To add to this, I created a 4x4 mesh, then went back to edit mesh and points are way off. Take point 2-0, my manual edit points value at .07 while probe says -.7 should be my value. I get to the back and I can't even go down enough. So it's something and the probe is basically useless at this point. Might as well do manual mesh.

[s4ndm4ns]

I ran auto leveling with z-offset set to 0 and it is somewhat useful, if z-offset is set to anything else its total garbo

[KBalage]

Just as an update: I haven't replaced the SKRME3V3 yet. I'm still struggling with the mesh, UBS still not able to detect the correct offsets across my bed and still having inconsistent printings - unless I do a manual edit on my mesh. I have tried the Printables model to lineup the CrTouch with the nozzle it didn't change a thing. I have also tried many other things HT ON/OFF, different fw versions, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. and all - none of these helped. However I have found 2 problems with my bed. 1 - the screws are pushing up the magnetic surface on the 4 corner spots leaving bubbles and uneven surface behind. It happened most probably a few times during even the 1st assembly and every time I have removed the bed for maintenance most probably. Whenever the bed has to stay on the long screws it happens, so be aware of this. As a workaround I have added a 5mm washer and a nut on the bottom of the bed to avoid this - especially on my new bed which leads to point 2 2 - it turned out that my bed has an above 0.3 mm deviation causing the strange pattern (higher on the bottom and top part). I have reported this to Creality and they are sending me a replacement heated bed. For this to happen Creality asked some proof for which I had to remove the bed completely from the printer, and then after I have assembled the printer again the motherboard died and caused a small fire at the USB-C connector. The printer is useless at the moment thanks to this, although it can still start without any USB-C connected - I don't want to force it any longer. So I'm waiting for a new F4 as well...

[DanMan32]

I don't think you're right about that.  Creality usually ships with 4.2.2.  You can buy the 4.2.7.UBL should work with 4.2.2, that's what most of us have.You do want to make sure you install the right Marlin compiled version though.You can't use a 4.2.7 compile on a 4.2.2 board, or vice versa Sent from my Galaxy

[mriscoc]

Please, the posts in this thread are related to Z-offset and leveling on Ender3S1 with F4 SoC. You can open other thread if you have an issue with other printer / hardware. Offtopic posts will be deleted.

[mriscoc]

Closed due to S1 F4 issues were identified as a mechanical problems not a firmware issue.