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Estudo do repertório de flauta solo
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Fazer transcrição diplomática de IF111786 O10 à IF111786 O14 #103

Closed ZeRodriguez closed 10 years ago

ZeRodriguez commented 10 years ago

Instruções gerais

daniloabrahao commented 10 years ago

Transcrição concluída.

daniloabrahao commented 10 years ago

Problemas encontrados: O10: o10hott

O11: o11hott

O13 e O14: o13o14hott

Como encontrei problemas em todas as obras que transcrevi, exceto O12. Suspeito que outras obras já transcritas e as demais deste caderno de Hotteterre possam apresentar problemas com a mesma frequência. A menos que eu tenha dado azar de pegar as obras mais problemáticas. O único problema apresentado antes destes foi o de @luanpiano. Talvez estejamos passando por cima de problemas sem perceber. Questões como a de O11, O13 e O14 podem passar facilmente desapercebidas.

Vou buscar uma solução a estes 3 problemas que apresentei.

ZeRodriguez commented 10 years ago

@SimeiFerreira e @DaianaMaciel, deem uma olhada nos problemas encontrados por Danilo. É interessante revisarmos nossas transcrições. =D

DaianaMaciel commented 10 years ago

Revisando as transcrições surgiu uma duvida na 02, no penúltimo compasso, parece ter 1 tempo a menos. Se for esse o caso, como solucionar?

tarefa

ZeRodriguez commented 10 years ago

@DaianaMaciel , de preferência comente em sua própria tarefa, ou ao menos faça uma referência. É só usar o "#" e o número da tarefa.

msampaio commented 10 years ago

O comentário deve ser feito na própria tarefa. Simplificará o rastreamento dos problemas de transcrição no futuro.

daniloabrahao commented 10 years ago

Em um comentário acima, apresentei 2 problemas em O10 e O11, os quais não sei como proceder...

msampaio commented 10 years ago

@robattolucas tem alguma sugestão para os problemas O10 e O11 apontados por @daniloabrahao?

robattolucas commented 10 years ago

Sobre o O10, vou pesquisar mais, porém acredito que se trate de um ornamento.

Sobre o O11, acabei de comentar em mensagem passada (utilização de acidentes e notas) e a rigor - e aí é que surge a "estranheza", no 1o compasso do exemplo de Danilo para O11 a última nota do compasso deveria ser sol natural! Olhando mais adiante neste mesmo prelúdio percebemos que no último compasso da 1a linha, acontece novamente o mesmo, e o último sol deveria ser natural.

Pelo que eu saiba, não há absolutamente consenso atualmente em como proceder nestes casos. Vejo que editores e interpretes assumem diversas posições, que podem ser resumidas em 3 atitudes paradigmáticas: a) ser "radical" com a regra da época: não tem a acidente na nota individual, vale o que está na armadura b) consideramos a notação moderna, em que um acidente em uma nota vale para todas estas notas subsequentes no compasso c) cada caso de ocorrência tem que ser examinado em detalhe.

Acredito que no caso de Hotetterre estamos mais para "a)" . O que acham?

Segue abaixo um trecho excelente livro do Donington, que trata dos acidentes. Aliás, este livro (que tenho em pdf) pode ser de grande valia para a mossa pesquisa - Danilo, trata-se de um Veilhan 1000 vezes mais detalhado.

DONINGTON, Robert. The Interpretation of Early Music. Londres: Faber, 1963.

[p. 69]

CHAPTER V

Interpretating Written Accidentals

  1. EARLY ACCIDENTALS APPLY BASICALLY TO SINGLE NOTES

The basic convention governing the influence of accidentals down to the end of the baroque period remained that given by Simpson, at (79) in Ch. IV, 4, above: each accidental affects only that note against which it is placed.

Exceptions were extremely numerous, however, and were partly guided by subsidiary conventions.

  1. EFFECT OF THE BAR-LINE ON ACCIDENTALS

A convention which does not apply in early music is that governing accidentals strictly by the bar. The reason for this will readily be appreciated.

Bar-lines are found as occasional conveniences at very early periods, but first became frequent in organ scores and tablatures of the late sixteenth century, to make it easier to keep the place (i.e. when accompanying unbarred polyphonic parts). They serve the same practical purpose of place-keeping in keyboard solos, where the notes themselves may often be written considerably out of vertical alignment; and the lutenists also employed them. But few of these early bar-lines occur at regular and consistent intervals of time; nor do they always appear at

the same places in different copies of the same work. Except in dance or dance-influenced music, there were no regular intervals of time. There was no unit in the structure corresponding to our modern word "measure 1 in its sense of bar.

In baroque music of the main period there was such a unit; but not until late in the eighteenth century did advantage begin to be taken of this change to build up our modern convention governing accidentals by the bar. We have to watch for cases such as Ex. 1, and conversely (but less frequently) Ex. 2.

Ex. 1:

[Escrito: E (seminima) F# G# (2 colcheias) A (seminima) G F (2 colcheias) – barra de compasso – E(seminima.

Soa: E (seminima) F# G# (2 colcheias) A (seminima) G# F# (2 colcheias) – barra de compasso – E (seminoma).]

INTERPRETATING WRITTEN ACCIDENTALS

Ex. 2. Accidental maintained across the bar-line:

[Escrito: G# A B A (seminimas) – barra de compasso- G (seminima) A (mínima) G (seminima) – barra de compasso- A (semibreve).]

In Ex. 2, however, we should be more likely to find a sharp written not only against the second G but also against the third.

By the middle of the eighteenth century, the force of an accidental was sometimes extended indefinitely until cancellation, the bar-line, however, still not being given a cancelling effect.

(80) C. P. E. Bach, Essay, II, Berlin, 1762, 1, 38:

'Unless an accidental [in the figuring] is cancelled, it remains in force.'

The date at which the modern convention became fully established cannot be accurately stated; but there is no baroque music for which it was more than an incipient tendency, and perhaps no eighteenth-

century music for which it is to be relied on unreservedly. For early music generally, it is a sound basis to ignore the bar-line when considering the scope intended for a written accidental.

  1. EFFECT OF THE HEXACHORD ON ACCIDENTALS

(a) In the hexachordal system, an accidental B flat implies mutation into a soft hexachord, and it was therefore a regular convention that the influence of this flat should persist until further mutation was necessitated, either by a written B natural intervening, or by the melodic line moving beyond the limits of the hexachord (see Ch. IV, 3, above).

By analogy, this convention also held good for flats other than B, but not for sharps, which have no place in the basic hexachordal system (though they were brought in by transposition, F sharp being

mi, for example, where D is ut\

(b) As a loose consequence of this convention, we find in music at least down to the middle of the seventeenth century a general tendency, other things being equal, for flats to last but for sharps not to last.

  1. EFFECT OF REPETITION ON ACCIDENTALS

In theory, the basic convention that a written accidental affects only the note against which it is placed covered even the special case of the same note repeated twice or more times in succession,

(81) Jacopo Peri, Euridice, Florence, 1600, Avvertimento:

'[An accidental] is never to be introduced except on that note alone on

which it is shown, even though there may be several repetitions of that

same note.'

[p.70]

INTERPRETATING WRITTEN ACCIDENTALS

In practice, great variability obtained. This is virtually admitted by Peri in this very work, since he several times, when repeating the note in the bass, writes in a cancelling accidental which should not be necessary according to his own rule. We may infer that the mle might very easily be ignored by the performer in the absence of this precaution.

When a note shown with an accidental is repeated, but the accidental is not repeated, we can (according to the sense of the music) either regard that accidental as cancelled or regard it as influencing the repetition or repetitions of the note (including repetitions which are not quite immediate, i.e. where one or two other notes of brief duration intervene).

Where either a rest or the start of a new phrase intervenes, it is a virtual certainty that the accidental should be regarded as cancelled, except possibly in the case of flats where the compass of the hexachord has not been exceeded.

When neither rest nor new phrase intervenes, the choice depends on our judgment of the musical situation ; but the tendency for the influence of the accidental to persist increased during the course of the seventeenth century, and still more in course of the eighteenth.

2013/10/29 Marcos da Silva Sampaio notifications@github.com

@robattolucas https://github.com/robattolucas tem alguma sugestão para os problemas O10 e O11 apontados por @daniloabrahaohttps://github.com/daniloabrahao ?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/GenosResearchGroup/FlautaSolo/issues/103#issuecomment-27306310 .

ZeRodriguez commented 10 years ago

@daniloabrahao , qual o estado da tarefa?

daniloabrahao commented 10 years ago

@ZeRodriguez, a transcrição já foi concluída, como comentei antes. Então pode me enviar mais transcrições. A pendência que tenho é organizar estas questões na página do Genos. @msampaio, seria problema você criar uma tarefa para criação da página de Notas Musicológicas? Se não puder podemos discutir os processos dessa atividade por e-mail também.