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muellermartin / nosystemd.org

Website for arguments against systemd and further resources
https://nosystemd.org
MIT License
68 stars 28 forks source link

Recovering without-systemd.org pages #18

Open clort81 opened 4 years ago

clort81 commented 4 years ago

The site had a lot of information which should be made available.

For example the List of Distributions: https://web.archive.org/web/20190717101155/http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd

I can set aside some time to curate these here if you give me access. Nobody seems to be objecting to this idea yet.

muellermartin commented 4 years ago

Good idea! Do you know what license these texts where under? A permissive license would make the re-publishing much more feasible, but rewording should be no problem.

Actually I had a link to this wiki, but removed it as it went down (see 4851e65). Maybe we could add a link to the archived version at archive.org.

Feel free to fork this repository and submit pull requests. This way I can review the changes and we can discuss them publicly. I will then happily merge this to fill the page with more information.

Also as the content grows, at some point it would be reasonable to switch to a static page generator (something like Pelican, Jekyll, Hugo or alike) to make editing of multiple pages easier.

Obazzi commented 3 years ago

How is this initiative going? Can I help?

Obazzi commented 3 years ago

Sadly, I checked everywhere on the archived wiki and I could not find a licence mentioned anywhere. No trace of who made it, so I don't know who to contact to ask for possible permission.

Here is a list of all the possibly useful stuff on the wiki: https://web.archive.org/web/20190711085730/http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd https://web.archive.org/web/20170823100327/http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Init https://web.archive.org/web/20190717101155/http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd https://web.archive.org/web/20190711085733/http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Operating_systems_without_systemd https://web.archive.org/web/20190711085732/https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/List_of_articles_critical_of_systemd https://web.archive.org/web/20190420093855/http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Local_copy_of_boycottsystemd.org_archive Looking at this is really fun! There is a lot of stuff listed that I never even heard about!

For things like the Linux_distributions_without_systemd, Operating_systems_without_systemd, Init and List_of_articles_critical_of_systemd we can just copy selectively what we want from them to put on nosystemd.org without much problem as you can't really claim a list of links or a list of names of operating systems as your own creation anyway. For Arguments_against_systemd we will have to reword.

Also, what do we want the future of nosystemd.org to be? Do we want to make a giant and fun list of a bunch of operating systems like the without-systemd.org wiki was? Or should we refrain to add an OS that even the average Linux nerd would not want to daily drive? For example, this continuation of plan9 called 9front. Should we add this? Is it too esoteric? It is Unix like and has no systemd. If that was not too esoteric, then could we add Temple OS to the list? I am just wondering where is the limit! Just compare the massive list of Linux_distributions_without_systemd of the wiki with the small list that nosystemd.org currently have (some distributions listed in the wiki are probably dead though). And that is without talking about Operating_systems_without_systemd! What is wonderful about nosystemd.org currently is that it is does not overcomplicate the choice of Systemdless OS. A novice can go on nosystemd.org and compare the different OS listed rapidly, and he won't be scared away by a massive list. But maybe we should go all in and start listing a massive amount of OS and distros! And maybe even start putting a small summary next to each one of them! We could probably fix the novice problem by listing all the easy distros first in a smaller, separate section that would come first. But yeah, I want to know everyone's opinion on this.

muellermartin commented 3 years ago

Hey @Obazzi thanks for your interest and the input.

I will be honest: I started this project more as a joke than a serious take and I don't really have an idea or vision for it. systemd has matured and it surely has some advantages (for example unit files are really a lot easier to handle). On the other hand, there is room for criticism. Just a plain list of every distro or OS without systemd will not provide any useful help, and other sites like DistroWatch (already linked on nosystemd.org) do a much better job. Working out some solid counterarguments against systemd could be helpful, but I'm not really an expert on init systems and OS design and I lack the time and passion for this. But I will watch the discussion and keep the website running until further notice.