Converted png files

[ha6000]

I converted all the symbols to png 500 by 500, and was just wondering if you are interested in having it, I converted it using my own script I created and svg2png if you want automated conversion we could add a github action but I am not sure if it can convert them all in the time limit. I might need to optimize my script a bit more to do that. If the resolution is too low I can convert them to higher resolution. We can also maybe use this converted to png files for the web interface.

[SteveALee]

@ha6000 thank you very much for the offer. I'd certainly be most interested in hosting or linking to your script.

I'm keeping to SVG releases of the symbols for a number of reasons

• SVGs are scalable so they look good at any resolution
• the SVG files are much smaller than raster images,
• SVG is finally getting solid support in many places the symbols are used.
• I want to encourge SVG use for symbols in general.

However I realise some technologies still require the use use of fixed resolution raster format images lin png.. But the required resolution is completely dependent on use and we cannot easily predict a set to provide. (In actual fact we did supply a few raster resolutions in the old days of Straight-street. but I dropped them when taking the symbols on and stripping right back)

However I'd be very happy to provide a script or tool for developers to create raster sets at the resolution they want. I don't think none develoepr users will need these as Word Processor and Presentation tools fully support SVG these days. As do web browsers. So it can be quite technical to use. In actuall fact, untill now I'de left it to developers like yourself to use the available tools in a script. That said, it makes sense to provide somehting and share your work. These are OPEN symbols after all.

I'm very happy to discuss any possible enhancements to your script and how I might make it available on Mulberry. The obvious one would be to make the resolution a parameter. Others could be selecting categories or other subsets.

For now I think converting, a local set of symbols makes most sense, though Global Symbols say they may be making the details of their RESTful API public at some point.

Out of interest, how are you using ther symbols?

[ha6000]

I myself do not use them but a speech therapist I know wanted to use them for teaching material and she needed it in png format, so I converted for her. I do have a repo for the script but forgot to push my changes there. I will send link to it when I am done. The svg2png module I am using automatically detects the size it should be at, but one image failed because of that, so I decided to set it to a predefined number. I could make have it try to auto detect size and if it fails switch back to predefined. I also wanted to have it a lower amount because the 500 by 500 is already 100mb.

[ha6000]

Also I was not thinking of replacing svg, I was more thinking of having it as a extra download option as not everything supports svg.

[ha6000]

Here is the script https://github.com/ha6000/bulkSVGtoPNG

[ha6000]

I was also thinking of keeping the categories.html but display lower quality jpg version of the symbols and when you click on one it downloads the svg version of it and then host the categories.html with the website.

[eadraffan]

Thank you so much for this update which is really exciting to learn about... Personally I would love the availability of as many formats as possible. svgs and pngs with transparent backgrounds for communcation boards and web and jpgs for printing if the transparent background causes problems. Some end up with black backgounds when downloaded or when used in certain simple image applications etc. The idea is that when using symbols in a communication chart they can been seen against a coloured background that might represent a part of speech or topic depending on the way the user or supporting person wants to see the symbols. Re-sizing from 500x500px is also important for posters, information sheets and pictographic symbols being used on doors and walls etc. So often they will be printed out as pdfs as well! But I am sure you know all this so apologies for going over the topic, but I often end up screen grabbing symbols from our repository when they fail to have the format that I can use easily, or I do not have the tools or time to do a conversion! Here is one example. Many thanks

[ha6000]

I think all of mine worked out good. I have not yet seen any with black backgrounds.

[eadraffan]

Do you mean they all have transparent backgrounds, but when I view them in Chrome they look as if they have black backgrounds! ;>)

[SteveALee]

@ha6000

The svg2png module I am using automatically detects the size it should be at,

How can it? based on what? SVG has no prefered size? Unless it's using the width / height in the SVG.? eg 854.353 for A.

These are completely aribtrary and I don't know where they even came from - perhaps the original Adobe designer. This is an important point and I'll raise another issue to explore this. It could explain why the symbols often appear massive!

Also I was not thinking of replacing svg

Yes I got that. I was planning to keep to just SVG as explained above. I have been trying to find out how people want to access and use them #35 and so far there's been no definite need for raster given to me.

I was also thinking of keeping the categories.html but display lower quality jpg version of the symbols and when you click on one it downloads the svg version of it and then host the categories.html with the website.

I think png will be a better format than JPEG given the content is large blocks of same colour. If you are trying to create a smaller html file with all the symbols the the SVGs are around 5KB average surely any thumbnails will be larger? We did have thumbnails before.

[ha6000]

I actually did not know svg had a size? My guess it sets it to a size that most detail will be in there

[ha6000]

@eadraffan the black backgrounds might be created by chrome.

[SteveALee]

@eadraffan @ha6000

So what tools require raster and still cannot use SVGs? I've been trying to find out for ages #35

@eadraffan I know you mentioned MS paint before - but that is a raster tool so is expected - though there's no reason it could not convert SVG on import I guess. I just doesn't. Could you not use Inkscape (now version 1) or other scalable graphic tool.

Also why would you want JPEG to print? Do you not import into another tool before printing?

Re transparency. Our SVGs are naturally transparent background How have you seen @ha6000's symbols? I see no link to them. Chrome may be supplying a default background colour.

[SteveALee]

@ha6000 @eadraffan I'm not totally against providing additional formats again. But there needs to be a good reason. And we'd need to find the right resolution (singular -smile).

Otherwise it's somehtign else to manage - even wit ha proper automated CD/CR process which we can now easily do on GitHub.

[ha6000]

My reason for creating the converter was for Microsoft word

[SteveALee]

@EA why not just use Powerpoint/impress to create charts Docs are printable at any size, they support SVG directly and have easy to use editing tools to create charts.

I'd exect therm to be almost ideal tools really. Joe Reddington and others use it. CommuniKate has templates

[SteveALee]

My reason for creating the converter was for Microsoft word

Oh, I was sure it supports SVG now (can't test on this PC). If not shame on Microsoft!!

PowerPoint definitely does! Libre Office Writer does too.

[yatil]

My reason for creating the converter was for Microsoft word

Oh, I was sure it supports SVG now (can't test on this PC). If not shame on Microsoft!!

PowerPoint definitely does! Libre Office Writer does too.

For what it’s worth Word had no issues to use SVG in the latest version on my Mac.

[ha6000]

Could be that the version I tested on does not support svg yet.

[SteveALee]

Hey @yatil it's wonderfull to see you here! Thanks for the input and confermation I was not imagining it :)

@ha6000 - it could be. I think they stopped updating at 2016 (which I have via MSDN) and now push everyone to use O365. For fun, I just tried the free outlook.com but that failed to accept SVG - but then it's old and a freebie.

[eadraffan]

I am beginning to feel that what we really need is a 'guidance doc' for those of us trying to use any symbol image formats! Lets keep SVG as the essential one for all symbols as Steve suggests. Then we can provide guidance about the tools on offer, not just for conversions but also chart building, such as Powerpoint with or without the Commtap Symboliser for PowerPoint or Joe's Open Voice Factory code that I have also used for conversions. Also all the other online chart building tools provided by many apps and symbol set providers. I am happy to list as many as I can find. Hopefully you won't mind if I include our free Boardbuilder that will be updated in the coming months thanks to a Winston Churchill Action Fund grant. Do let me know if you feel a guidance document would help and solve some of the dilemmas.

[SteveALee]

@eadraffan that's a great idea. It would be so useful tobetter know the actuall requirements in terms of objectives and tools etc. That's why I had #36 open trying to understand user needs. I just worded it badly (from the project point of view, not users).

Yes please! Could you supply some common use cases including tools? The more the better. Perhaps indicate the open/proprietary status. Either on #36 or a new issue? Or even on Emptech :)

Once we are clearer on requirements we can review wether we build fixed size versions as well, using @ha6000's helpful PR.

[eadraffan]

Can you please expand on what you mean by 'requirements in terms of objectives and tools' and I will try to add this to each project, tool or piece of code mentioned! If it is requirements related to something like Boardbuilder please let us know!

[SteveALee]

Somehting like

• Using PowerPoint (local or O365) to create a printable chart
  • add individual symbol (browse to it)
  • SVG
  • All symbols downloaded and available locally
  • up to user to manage versions of symbol set
• using BoardBuilder
  • Select symbol to add
  • App use Google Symbols API to find, select and fetch symbol
  • SVG
  • Global Symbols has a copy of all the symbols
    • gets latest version from Mulberry (how does it know, how does it get?)

[eadraffan]

Many thanks. I am afraid ICCHP papers come first but I will get it done! Keep reminding me!