Feature request: Choose Meridian when satellite tracking

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel, I would kindly ask for the feature to chose the Meridian when tracking satellites analog the handpad. The reason is, that very often only one hemisphere of the transit is visible for me and it makes only sense to track after Flip. If I start from West, I only lose time for flipping. please see example attached (red transit, actual Horizon of my home in the image). As you can see it makes no sense to track on the red curve the west part of the transit.

Thanks for evaluating! Rüdiger

[mworion]

Rüdiger, Did some tests, from calculation and GUI I'm ready. Only point: I have to build a track with Alt/Az coordinates (new feature in FW3.x). I do not know who asked for it and what the intense was as TLExx commands already did the job. Now I have to decide which type of coordinate transformation I have to choose to get the right coordinates. You will have to test somehow. I will start with Alt/Az apparent without refraction correction (as I hope this will be done in the mount). I also revised the Satellites GUI to make it better readable: Here the example: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pjtfhezms2pirkh/Bildschirmvideo%20aufnehmen%202021-04-13%20um%2021.16.02.mov?dl=0 Michel

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michael,

just watched the movie and it looks great. Of course I will test, but weather and the matching transit must occur. But I will test asap.

Thank you very much! Looks marvelous! Rüdiger

[Ruediger3]

Is there a beta, so I can provide a feedback for the new windows features?

[mworion]

Unfortunately not. There are still some tests to do, probably for the weekend. We‘ll see.

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 13.04.2021 um 22:05 schrieb Rüdiger @.***>:

 Is there a beta, so I can provide a feedback for the new windows features?

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[Ruediger3]

No problem. Just let me know when and if I can support you. Thanks!

[mworion]

v2.0.0b3 shows some of the features. need to implement the programming (download will take >5 seconds to the mount computer).

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel,

had a look an looks very nice. I do like the new graphs in the satellite window. I will test as soon as possible,

Many thanks! Rüdiger

[mworion]

Please be reminded, that the tracking itself is still the same. v2.0.0b4 will offer old an new in comparison. v2.0.0b3 shows the new gui and selection features

[mworion]

Rüdiger, I will released v2.0.0b4. Unfortunately for the new features (the old sat function is still in place) I need explicitly programming the alt / az coordinates to the mount. As this takes time through the command protocol, it's now an explicit step (not automatic like mount internal one). I counterchecked my calculation with regard to precision with the the results from the mount itself by it's internal routines. The alt / az differences are in order of 1-10 arc seconds. Hope this is enough for sat tracking. A goodie: I also could manage that satellite tracking respects horizon lines so you only will track on a visible path. Michel

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel,

Many thanks for the update. I will test as soon as possible. 1-10 arcsec should be ok for me, since I shoot at max 0,22"/p, so the offset is at max. 50p and the ISS is still in FOV. Horizontal line is a cool goody 👍 Question: the scope is waiting at the horizontal line for the satellite to rise and starts tracking when it is crossing it?

Greetings Rüdiger

[mworion]

Rüdiger, Yes it behaves like the internal: waiting at the start point and then following. You could use the handpad for adjustments. Michel

Am 30.04.2021 um 18:29 schrieb Rüdiger @.***>:

Hi Michel,

Many thanks for the update. I will test as soon as possible. 1-10 arcsec should be ok for me, since I shoot at max 0,22"/p, so the offset is at max. 50p and the ISS is still in FOV. Horizontal line is a cool goody 👍 Question: the scope is waiting at the horizontal line for the satellite to rise and starts tracking when it is crossing it?

Greetings Rüdiger

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[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel, I have installed it, but either I do something wrong or there is a failure: When double clicking e.g. ISS nothing happens, no calculations. Log is attached.

Cheers Rüdiger

mw4-2021-04-30.log

[mworion]

Had a priority to a running mount. Changes will occur in v2.0.0b5 and adding a simulating feature that you could do a test run without waiting for the real satellite. Michel PS: v2.0.0b5 is online now.

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel,

many thanks! I have installed it and did a quick tour without the mount attached. 2 things came up:

1. Color of the green transit is hard to read when close to custom horizon. Maybe switch one to blue?

2. The tool tip says ""prognosis ... satellite over horizon." Which horizon? Custom or standard horizon?

Many thanks! Rüdiger

[mworion]

Rüdiger,

Colors are to be improved. I have to play around. The horizon is the standard. And if you could confirm the precision, It’s not a prognosis as I had before, but it’s the highest precision I could calculate. Still the position of a satellite due to the limited number of digits in the provided TLE parameters files is about 1km in space….

Michel

Am 01.05.2021 um 19:56 schrieb Rüdiger @.***>:

Hi Michel,

many thanks! I have installed it and did a quick tour without the mount attached. 2 things came up:

Color of the green transit is hard to read when close to custom horizon. Maybe switch one to blue? https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/65772654/116790887-14d25d80-aab7-11eb-90f6-abc9852616cb.png The tool tip says ""prognosis ... satellite over horizon." Which horizon? Custom or standard horizon? https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/65772654/116790901-2451a680-aab7-11eb-8a69-bb008f5208bf.png Many thanks! Rüdiger

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[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel, I will test precision (if you mean accuracy of tracking e.g. the ISS) as soon as possible. Currently it is raining cats and dogs. We even have rain warning from DWD :(. I am looking forward to test myself :)

Rüdiger

[mworion]

Same here, I switched colors to a more calm way as I might need it later. Michel

[Ruediger3]

Looks good 👍

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel, just tested with internal math, and the ISS was completely missed. The mount started tracking long before ISS came over the horizon. It was more than 90 degree off. It flipped just when ISS came over the horizon. I immediately reverted back to mount math and the ISS was precisely in the center of the camera at the CDK@2563 mm FL. Below the the setting. Before I had updated all the crucial files.

mw4-2021-05-29.log

[mworion]

Hi Rüdiger, just a quick question: was Long before about 70 seconds ? Michel

[Ruediger3]

Yes, at minimum. But this is hard to tell. I was very bussy to get everything working correctly. There every second is a year ;). But 70s might be matching.

[mworion]

The only thing I can think of are the 69.184 s time difference between TT Time System (MW4 base) and UTC Time system (mount base). I have to have a walk through to find out.

[Ruediger3]

Many thanks! Rüdiger

[mworion]

Hi Rüdiger, in fact that was most likely the issue. I did some satellite tracks in realtime and I now see no difference between internal and mount math track path. So hopefully it should be sorted out. v2.0.0b12 will have the fixes in and also some improvements for the GUI (adding mount Alt/Az pointer to the satellite view. Michel

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel, I have installed b12 and will check ASAP. Many thanks! Rüdiger

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel, tested it and it again failed when Horizon is checked. It starts tracking immediately when the ISS is rising but not when crossing the user horizon. This is completely ignored. It starts tracking from user horizon start point at the same time the ISS rises over earth horizon.

Here horizon "Off" but also missed it. I was not able to get it into FOV.

mw4-2021-05-30.log

[mworion]

Hi Rüdiger, thanks for the detailed feedback. To clearify: Now tracking is good if not using horizon mask. Correct ? If enabled MW4 does not start right when crossing the horizon line. What about not having the satellite into FOV. Could you get an estimate how far it might be off ? Michel

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel, the tracking with user horizon was completely far away. When switched off, it was quite close (also cross checked live in Stellarium), but ISS did not come into FOV, which means a considderable deviation for the full frames camera like mine. I have tried to switch in a third attempt to mounts math during that pass, but it was to late. I have only seen ISS rushing through the image during flip.

Thank you! Rüdiger

[mworion]

Hi Rüdiger, the horizon issue should be fixed in v2.0.0b15. Regarding the ISS in FOV I recalculated your situation (TLE, Refraction, Location, Time) and compared it to the mount calculation. Attached the plots. If you have some ideas, why the difference of 10 - 15 arcsec in Alt/Az leads to a situation of not having ISS in FOV (0.2 arcsec / pix) means about 50 pixel difference, please let me know.

Michel

[Ruediger3]

I have installed the latest version via new updater. Worked fine. I will test asap.

Could it be that some latency leads to that delay? When calculated on the mount's controller the result is intermediately transferred to the motors, whereas when calculating in MW the controller needs to interpret the controlling impulses and send it to the mount. Maybe this delay is too much? But this is only wild guessing. BTW: Your linked images are not working. :(

One other thing I have notice: The position of the 3D simulator is not stored when restarting MW. Maybe a good idea to include it also in the profile. Also another point: When you have a window position outside your screen you cannot get it back. Happened to me copying my profiles from a multi screen workstation to my NUC. I could not get my windows back :(. It should be checked for boundaries. THX! Should I open dedicated issues? Rüdiger

[mworion]

Rüdiger, Latency should not be the problem as it is (after programming) all handled inside the mount. So programming does start time and tracking path and hands over to mount for execution. Images: Might be the case that they are not transferred through email. On the webpage they should be present. Question about the position of 3D simulator: The window position is persistent and in the profile. Only point is that it does not open automatically. Reason for this is multi platform as not all platforms support 3D and this I handled be enabling or disabling Opening Window. Windows outside the screen should be set automatically to x/y: 0, 0. I already check screenSize in x and y and if position exceeds this, I''ll set it back. But I improve this part.

No need for separate issue, will include this in b16 for test. Michel

[mworion]

Hi Rüdiger, anything new about the precision of the tracking ? 3D simulator and windows positioning should be already corrected Michel

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel,

Sorry no. No ISS pass when wether would allow observing. It is still on the list, but currently I am busy not to float away... continuous rain 🤬

Cheers Rüdiger

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel, just tested with the 20:35 transit. The mount started at horizon, but ISS was not in FOV. The model is precise to get any target into FOV at least. It looks like the mount is a bit to slow. In the image you the the ISS position, the mounts position and the FOV.

Yet another point: If the mount is programmed you have no indicator that the mount is in hot stand by. You are not shure whether it is really waiting. Would be good if you would have some visual indicators. e.g. make the button "Start satellite tracking" green flashing.

Rüdiger

[mworion]

Hi Rüdiger, Many thanks for checking. The indicator topic is a good idea. I will do that. Regarding the tracking: Is the mount constantly too slow, meaning it's starting time is too late and the distance ISS and mount keeps constant ? How far away / too late it the mount actually? I have to check if I have a systematically error or I did not understand the new command protocol right. From calculation side the errors are within 10-15 arcsec, so this should not be an issue. I am missing something. Michel

Am 18.07.2021 um 20:46 schrieb Rüdiger @.***>:

Hi Michel, just tested with the 20:35 transit. The mount started at horizon, but ISS was not in FOV. The model is precise to get any target into FOV at least. It looks like the mount is a bit to slow. In the image you the the ISS position, the mounts position and the FOV.

Yet another point: If the mount is programmed you have no indicator that the mount is in hot stand by. You are not shure whether it is really waiting. Would be good if you would have some visual indicators. e.g. make the button "Start satellite tracking" green flashing.

Rüdiger

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[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel, just ran a test with tracking by the mount, but it also missed. So the question is why. Never had issues. I had updated the TLE before. The only difference: I am using GPS time for this test and before I had used PC time in high precision, which worked.

I am shooting with 0.15 "/pix @ approx. 8m FL. FOV is about 5x3 arcmin.

Attached the screenshot from guiding with the mount's function.

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel,

sorry I have forgotten one info: The offset is constant (at least so far I could figure out in that very short time).

Rüdiger

[mworion]

Hi Rüdiger,

I could do adding a time offset to correct this. Question is a systematic error. So with your remark, start time might be the very point. If you state it's a constant offset. Could you tell me the time difference? Out of the drawing back calculating the time difference is difficult as I do not know the actual angle velocity of the ISS.

Michel

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel,

thanks for the feedback. Please wait with the offset implementation. I will test (hopefully) today again with a bigger FOV to get it into FOV. I am not sure why it is failing. Due to the fact it is not in FOV and it is so small I can hardly guess the offset in time, since I have no reference point. But it is far below 1s.

[Ruediger3]

Hi Michel,

just tested with huge FOV and the ISS was on the edge. My observations:

1. The offset is very constant
2. I did manual correction and it was almost constant
3. After the flip, the ISS was well focuses, but I am nit sure, whether it is due to the manual corrections before the flip. Do they remain after the flip as offset?

FOV: 48 x 32 arcmin (outer red box, inner box PC display size)

Before Flip:

After Flip:

[Ruediger3]

One information: PC time differs 503ms to mount which takes GPS time. This is roughly the time lag / offset.

[mworion]

Rüdiger, Is there any difference between mount calculated and my calculation in terms of the observed offset. The command protocol allows +- 999ms time correction when following a programmed track. So adjusting should be possible. Michel

[mworion]

Addition: could you read out the GPS - UTC time difference stored in the mount ?

[Ruediger3]

How can I check this? Or do you mean comparing MW4 Sat track and Mount Sat track? BTW: Just tried "Push mount time to PC" and it does not work. The time gap remains 500ms.

[mworion]

If you would like to sync, enable connect clock sync and enable sync mount to pc clock.

[mworion]

please feel fret choose if you want update during tracking or not.

[mworion]

Rüdiger The UTC-GPS delta is under settings in the handpad and should be 18s. The offset I look for is between mount computed tracking path and MW4 computed tracking path. Michel

[Ruediger3]

Ok, I was expecting when pressing "Push mount time to PC" it pushes the time regardless the settings below.

Offset seams to be correct-

How can I compare the track data?

[Ruediger3]

BTW pushing the time from mount to PC might be dangerous. Since the PC also detects a deviation a is forcing an update from time server. This might lead to an oscillation, or you have to switch off time server sync. This is a very bad idea in a network. Windows domains react extremely allergic to time differences. I have a very bad gut feeling. This is only a good idea for stand alone devices.

[mworion]

I agreed, this is really a user demand for send alone without being connected. I wonder how much the MW4 tracking differs from internal mount calculation. Looking forward to your results. And still wondering why the difference is about 0.5s between GPS and PC