Selfish map and game abuse

[Gambit99]

Am I the only one that is disappointed that the (now enlarged) community is resistant to playing anything but blue fields, wide pass, and dsde, and only in the 8v8 setting or even larger?

It reminds me of the situation that BA fell into, where the map voting process leads people to vote for the few maps that they know best - typically DSD. This situation is self-reinforcing because all players continue to develop their relative expertise on that set of maps and consequently vote for it (and play it) more often, increasing their relative strength on those maps and their preference for them.

[SoulRaiZor]

Why not let ppl play what they want? Thats democracy. On the other Hand - those maps work almost lagfree for everyone. Other maps lag for at least 30% of the players.

[skymyj]

It's always possible to use an other host to play othe rmap with less player. Personnaly, I don't like game with more 10 players. So I could join your host :)

[SoulRaiZor]

i just checked my last 28 games: 9x blue fields 8x dsde 2x vauban fortress 2x emain macha 3x metal map 1x tangerine 1x tabula 2x wide pass

[Zonkspring]

Imo those maps lag just as much, if not even more than others. Mega Terraforming Tidal pool on DSDe & Bluefields anyone?

And yeah Gambit im a bit bored of it too. Wish we'd play more OTA maps, personally. Some of em would need a bit of rebalancing/fixing. But look at Small Divide - the version we play is pretty different from the OTA one. OTA version was 5x8 and hills were waaay south...

Plenty of OTA maps there that are mirrored or at least very even tho. And VERY well suited to TEA - actually better than some BA maps.

Examples: Acid Foursome/Trip/Pool - no reason to be scared of a lil' bit of Acid Biggie Biggs - hopping from Island to Island? Why not, TEA offers plenty of methods for indirect attacks. Crystal Cracked/Island/Maze/Treasure Island - yay, some different ground for once! Dire Straits - Natural Fortifications, a bit of water, plenty of mountains to use as defense/spider territory... East Indeez Eastside Westside (looks very similar to a map recently released by... it was Fumus I think? Greenhaven - nice open space Higher Ground - another nice map for indrect attacks, not as fractured as Biggie Johns Pass - 7 Paths to attack, 3x sea, 2x land, 2x Mountains. Fun for agressive t1 / t1.5 & spiders games, up to t2 imo.

[Gambit99]

Soul's response is fair -- why not let people play what they want?

I would prefer to do this most of the time. After all, I want the players to enjoy the game. Like many other things in life, though, the pursuit of easy short-term happiness seldom guarantees long-term happiness. It's like giving a kid sugar all the time because that's what they desire the most. There is regulation and oversight in a democracy for this very reason.

Forcing players a small bit out of their comfort zone once in a while with a less popular (but playable) map is one way to keep the game fresh. It requires people to actually think in the game rather than rely on their memorized build orders to dominate the players less familiar with the territory.

One negative consequence of "map selfishness" is that game balance discussions will tend to support the maps that are played the most since they constitute most of the game play. Inevitably, some of these balance changes come at the cost of making the other maps less fun to play. (There is no set of changes short of equating the factions that will make the game perfectly balanced on all maps). Another consequence is that the preference for the popular maps will also increase to the point of making other maps (and styles of play) obscure. As I said, it is a self-reinforcing process and I think it destroys games and communities in the long run. The expert players who specialize on these maps dominate the game and make it less approachable by others. Through voting, they also cause newcomers to learn their preference for the same maps and this propagates the monopoly.

[SoulRaiZor]

Banning maps like happened now is definetely the wrong way

[frameworld]

Personally I prefer Greenfields because it is easy to find build spots. On DSD you are lucky if you can place a factory in the rear/top without running into terrain obstacles.

"Warhammer40k – Dawn of War" solved it, because there, on most terrain is either obstacle or build-able (you can build even on ramps between lower/higher ground) "Supreme Commander – Forged Alliance" has nothing with terraform and pretty even build areas.

When building a base you should care more about the general layout and less for min-maxing it, except on maybe a tiny front-line. .

––– REPLYS –––

Banning maps like happened now is definetely the wrong way

Imagine there wouldn't be a HARD-ban, but a SOFT-ban instead.

• Starting a regular played map starts a vote instead:
  • Yes : start this map
  • No : start a random other map

But random needs to be a map from a pool which features maps for different play-styles. And this pool needs to support each play-style equally, NOT randomly choosing from all AVAILABLE.

It's always possible to use an other host to play other map with less player. Personnaly, I don't like game with more 10 players. So I could join your host :)

NO it is not. here is why: If you make an extra room, the 8v8 room dies and those peoples go back to BA. Then somebody leaves and you stick in a room where you can't play. Thus you join BA cluster-hosts in the first place.

If you once started being in the BA host, the games start one after another in such a quick succession that you won't notice a TA room being ready. Whenever somebody PMs you, you are ingame and want to finish that game. When somebody PMs you between games, the game starts before he has 3 other peoples joining his room. Some players really are afraid to leave the BA room to miss a game or can't join because of spec and max-players and less other available rooms.

And when you get your 3 ally/opponents together, and it is not blue_fields or comet-catcher-redux, it is imbalanced and boring as hell because there are only few players interested in TA OR small games and even fewer in TA AND small games. Those players have limited skill variety and favourite playing styles.