Rename this Project

[flying-sheep]

The current name might confuse people into thinking this was an official port, filing bugs on the official bug tracker for it and so on.

There will never be an official Python 2.8, so there should never be something called “Python 2.8” or similar.

@gvanrossum might confirm this if you don't believe my words.

[flying-sheep]

I basically just filed an issue for what people in this thread were saying

[nirs]

Cpython maintainers has abandoned python 2 and the community. I don't see an issue with this name.

Maybe python 3 should change its name, as distriburions are planing to ship python3 as python, breaking good python code assuming that python executable can run python code.

[flying-sheep]

I’m sorry you feel that way, but what you say is not, in fact, the truth. Python 3 is just the next version of the language, announced ~10 years ago. All the time, it was clear Python 2 was going to be deprecated and discontinued eventually, just like Python 1, Java 4, and Lua 5.2.

People had 8 years to make their unit tests run with Python 3. I don’t know what led to the misconception that Python 2 was going to stick around unlike every deprecated version of any language or software ever.

There was no abandonment of any community, just a bunch of people deciding to defer eliminating technical debt while rationalizing that decision by forming a weird emotional attachment to some programming language’s old version.

[yan12125]

At least this line should be at the first line: This is not an official Python release; see PEP 404, not in the bottom

[flying-sheep]

By the way: If this project gets people to port more easily then I’m all for it!

But the PSF owns the name Python, so unless they decide to adopt this project (which very likely won’t happen because of PEP 404), this project can’t keep its name.

[ncoghlan]

Firstly, thanks for taking on the task of creating a hybrid superset of Python 2 that incorporates features you find interesting! Allowing folks to vote with their time and energy and create the projects and remixes that they wish existed is exactly the kind of thing that open source licensing is designed to allow.

However, as others have noted above, the PSF does have various policies specifically around the use of the Python mark, and the Trademarks Committee are reviewing the question of whether or not the current name of the project is appropriate in that light.

There's precedent for Python subsets and variants using the term as part of a longer name (e.g. MicroPython, Stackless Python), so something like "HybridPython" would be more likely to pass muster than an unqualified "Python".

Alternatively, a name like NorwegianBlue would reference Guido's original inspiration for the name of the language, while completely steering clear of any possible trademark concerns.

[dw]

I'm really happy to see a project like this gain a little traction, and I truly hope it succeeds as I'm certainly not the first or hundredth person to think something like it might be a good idea.

For that reason, and since currently it looks like @naftaliharris is the only developer, spending the limited energy available on an unwinnable trademark issue probably would not be wise.

+1 for changing the project name to something distinct, but it would also be great if the installed binaries and libraries maintained the same interface as official Python, since I think renames there would impact the project's usefulness.

[flying-sheep]

it would also be great if the installed binaries and libraries maintained the same interface as official Python

sure, just not $prefix/bin/python2.8

[gvanrossum]

Since I was asked: The project's name (and its binary name) need to change. They are misleading. The rest looks acceptable according to Python's license. This is not an endorsement (far from it).

[tiran]

Please also change the name of any helper scripts, the name of the shared library/DLL and the include directory. The name of the header file Python.h can probably stay since it's part of the public API.

• /usr/bin/python
• /usr/bin/python2.8
• /usr/bin/python-config
• /usr/bin/python2.8-config
• /usr/lib/libpython*
• /usr/include/python2.8

[stefantalpalaru]

I'll write a Gentoo ebuild for this package, as soon as you settle on a new name for it.

[dbohdan]

If you're going to change the project's name, let me suggest some short, Monty Python-themed options.

• Pythonesque (/usr/bin/pesque)
• Reunion
• Cleese
• Brian
• Wanda
• Nudge
• Rabbit
• Brazil

[stefantalpalaru]

How about "py2", taking a hint from "pypy"?

[giampaolo]

"py28"?

[stefantalpalaru]

Why also freeze the minor version? It's perfectly possible that a 2.9.x will be released at some point.

[trevyn]

"p"

[paul-nechifor]

Sadly, P is taken: http://esolangs.org/wiki/P .

[trevyn]

Looks abandoned, site is down and everything.

[maedoc]

Since both 2 and 3 features are handled you might consider six (I'm aware that's also the name of a compatibility package).

[naftaliharris]

I don't mind renaming this project. Any other suggestions for good names? I personally like "Pythonesque (/usr/bin/pesque)" the best so far, thanks @dbohdan! :-)

@VanL, not that I'm necessarily picking that, but would a name like that be acceptable?

[refi64]

Brydge? Since it's"between" 2 and 3...

Ok, I'll leave now.

[teles]

Change the name for snake :snake: !

[nirs]

Maybe nython for "nython is not official python"? or for "Naftali's Python"?

[degaart]

"snek", please name it "snek"!!!!

[JulienPalard]

Still Monty Python inspired: pysant, pronounced "peasant"? (Or present you choose).

A what? A present! A what??? A present! A what??? Un cadeau ! Ahhhh, "a present"!

[dubberx]

I like @teles name-of-a-snake idea. What about

• kraithon

, blending krait and python (krait, family of snakes, rhymes with "kite")?

[ojn]

Just remove the h - Pyton or call it Flying Circus.

[naftaliharris]

Pyton

Heh. I actually mess this up so often that I alias this on my machine to "python": https://github.com/naftaliharris/dotfiles/blob/master/.bashrc#L151

[ojn]

As I think about it, Monty would be a cool name...

[mrabarnett]

As it's Python 2, how about DuoPython?

[naftaliharris]

As I think about it, Monty would be a cool name...

It's taken, bummer... http://montyscoconut.github.io/

[ncoghlan]

@naftaliharris Thanks for being responsive to the name change request!

Assuming it is able to obtain the PSF's blessing from a trademark perspective, @dbohdan's suggestion of Pythonesque (pesque) sounds promising to me, as the main benefit of the project lies in it being Python-like, without being 100% constrained to meeting any specific version of the language definition (in particular, combining syntactic and runtime features of Python 3 with the Python 2 core data model).

[naftaliharris]

Thanks for being responsive to the name change request!

Of course @ncoghlan. :-)

Off topic, but I've just got to say I'm a huge fan of yours. As you'd imagine when working on this I read a lot of your code and writing, and have a ton of respect for the work you've done for the Python community over the last 10+ years. You should be very very proud.

[ntoll]

May I suggest "Parrot"..?

Why?

1) It's not dead, it's just... etc... (appropriate Monty Python reference). 2) It's still an animal. 3) It's not a Python.

Potential issue: doesn't PERL have a parrot VM? Might be too close...?

[flying-sheep]

Yeah, parrot is probably not a good fit for that reason.

Someone suggested using the breed of parrot used in the sketch (Norwegian blue), but that reference might be too obscure.

“pesque” sounds a bit too much like “pesky” IMHO.

[heliomeiralins]

I would call it Phyton.

[pfalcon]

Given that the project poses itself as an implementation of https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0404/ ("Python 2.8 Un-release Schedule") , a logical name would be "Unpython".

[ncoghlan]

Regarding the command name to pair up with the suggestion of "Pythonesque", pyesque occurred to me as a potentially clearer option than pesque - it has the py prefix (suggesting Python), and avoids the similarity to "pesky" that @flying-sheep mentioned.

[avamsi]

How about Pythold?

^{Okay, I'll get out of here now.}

[cndreisbach]

The wonambi is an extinct Australian snake species. While it was not a python, it was a constrictor. The name wonambi refers to the mythological Rainbow Serpent of the Dreamtime. Wonambi(s?) were around 6 meters long, making it a very large and terrifying snake.

Anyway, the name of a extinct constrictor seems pretty appropriate and badass for this resurrection of an extinct Python.

[naftaliharris]

Thinking more about this, "py28" has the nice advantage of keeping with the original inspiration for this project and being easy to say ("pie two eight"). I've asked the PSF if that name works for them.

Thanks everyone for the creative suggestions. I have to admit that I laughed out loud at "snek" :-).

[gvanrossum]

Doesn't work for me, sorry.

--Guido (mobile)

On Dec 11, 2016 2:45 PM, "Naftali Harris" notifications@github.com wrote:

Thinking more about this, "py28" has the nice advantage of keeping with the original inspiration for this project and being easy to say ("pie two eight"). I've asked the PSF if that name works for them.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/naftaliharris/python2.8/issues/47#issuecomment-266314206, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACwrMtHiULtJGS3d3x0Zrmm7hKrfp6Udks5rHH0cgaJpZM4LJmLH .

[ncoghlan]

Regarding py28, that wouldn't resolve the confusion, as the pyXY abbreviations are used specifically in https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0425/#overview to refer to versions of the language definition, and folks often use them that way in other contexts as well.

Another possibility that occurs to me is to name the project after it's key difference from Python 3, which is that it retains the POSIX-style text model that's more suitable for wire encodings and boundary code where the bytes/text boundary is fuzzy than it is normal application development logic (where you're mainly working with text and other forms of structured data): http://python-notes.curiousefficiency.org/en/latest/python3/questions_and_answers.html#what-actually-changed-in-the-text-model-between-python-2-and-python-3

Some name ideas in that vein:

• pynix: Python with the *nix text model
• pysix: Python with the POSIX text model (and also a reference to the six compatibility project)
• fuzzypy: Python with a fuzzily defined str type
• asciipy: Python with Python 2's old preference for ASCII as the default encoding and its ASCII-based restrictions on identifiers

Of all the suggestions so far, I think that last one wins handily in terms of explaining both:

• why the project exists (there's still a whole lot of software out there that shares Python 2's assumptions about ASCII vs the Unicode-native perspective of Python 3)
• whether or not someone might want to use it (i.e. if assuming ASCII as the default encoding in a lot of places is a behaviour you actually want, then AsciiPy may be a better fit for your needs than Python 3)

[bcse]

Since py2, py28 is not acceptable... How about pytwo?

[tisdall]

pynono - everyone knows extending 2 is a no-no.

[rsalmaso]

pydue (due: italian word for 2)

[stefantalpalaru]

Disregard Guido's objection. The "Python" trademark doesn't extend to "py2" or "py28". Read this for details: https://www.python.org/psf/trademarks/

[gvanrossum]

Isn't the whole point that we're trying to solve this without lawyers?

[stefantalpalaru]

The whole point is that you've been sabotaging Python 2 for years and when someone does what needed to be done from the start, you come up with silly objections.

[gvanrossum]

OK, bring in the lawyers.