Use the liquid electrolyzer to store BC MJ

[viliml]

I think it would be much better if, instead of being the liquid equivalent for the IC2 electrolyzer, the liquid electrolyzer would conver water and MJ to electrolyzed water, thus also providing a way to transfer MJ to EU and back!

[narc0tiq]

:+1: That's not a bad idea, but I'm slightly wary of the internal logic of Buildcraft power -- it's supposed to be pneumatic/kinetic rather than electric; this is why it's generated by engines and not generators. The electrolyzer, on the other hand, is by definition electric.

On the other hand, I could certainly see an engine run off electrolyzed water (which is not actually electrolyzed by the real-life definition, but more like "charged" water) -- seems to me the biogas engine, for instance, might be able to use it both for getting kickstarted and as general-purpose fuel. It wouldn't be exceptionally good fuel (something like 2 MJ/t or something?), but it would work without needing to use any lava for the warm-up. Assuming that's possible, which I haven't checked the API for.

An alternative (but one I don't really like right now) would be to make an engine. Or we could just use some other engine of the pre-existing ones (I get a list of 12 if I search NEI for "engine"). Oh, here's another clever alternative idea: Railcraft steam engines and boilers should find it easier to break down the charged water, leading to an increase in the steam output when boiling it.

Of course, consuming electrolyzed water in an engine does nothing for the reverse transition (MJ to EU), and I'm not sure what logical machine would convert water into charged water using kinetic energy. Can you think of any machine that would make sense here, or should I plan on making a new one?

Finally, there's yet another alternative: rename the LE to "Agitator" and just let it accept both MJ and EU, like you suggested; pair this with burning electrolyzed water in an engine and you can have two-way conversion in any direction, as long as you're willing to make this stuff as an intermediate step: use MJs to power an agitator and transfer the electric water to another agitator that outputs EU; or use EUs to power an agitator and burn the electric water in an engine to make MJs.

Um. Did you have any particular preference? Also, I think I'll copy this discussion over to the IC2 forum thread and let everyone else have a go at it.

[viliml]

I'm slightly wary of the internal logic of Buildcraft power -- it's supposed to be pneumatic/kinetic rather than electric

You think? How can you describle the Builder's principle of work? Or the Filler's? I think that in-game and in the code, MJ isn't really all that kinetic. Also, MJ=minecraft JOULE. It isn't minecraft pascal(for pressure) or anything similar, but joule, which is ebergy. Also, power in conductive pipes is light-blue, the colour people imagine electricity to be.

[narc0tiq]

The builder and filler (and quarry, and so on) work by magic. Energy goes into them and something happens -- they're black boxes with no real-life equivalent.

As for the other statement, here's the definition of a Joule:

The joule (pron.: /ˈdʒuːl/ or sometimes /ˈdʒaʊl/), symbol J, is a derived unit of energy, work, or amount of heat in the International System of Units. It is equal to the energy expended (or work done) in applying a force of one newton through a distance of one metre (1 newton metre or N·m), or in passing an electric current of one ampere through a resistance of one ohm for one second.

As far as this definition goes, there is nothing to say Buildcraft isn't using the first of the two definitions: a force of one N over a distance of one meter. Indeed, both Spacetoad and SirSengir have expressed irritation with people assuming Buildcraft energy is electrical in nature: it is not supposed to be electrical, according to the people who made the damn thing. In the code, even, it's called PneumaticPowerFramework.

In other news, the definition of "energy" in physics includes such things as kinetic energy, potential energy, and radiant energy.

[viliml]

hey're black boxes with no real-life equivalent.

Then why can't the LE be a white box with no real-life equivalent?

[viliml]

Also, I just noticed this:

seems to me the biogas engine, for instance, might be able to use it

What does biogas have to do with electrolyzed water?

[narc0tiq]

Then why can't the LE be a white box with no real-life equivalent?

Because I like my machines to make some kind of sense, even if occasionally twisted sense.

What does biogas have to do with electrolyzed water?

Nothing, but it's an engine that can run on lava + water (continuously consuming lava in the process), therefore it must be capable of using something like steam -- electrolyzed water can therefore be an alternate heat source (somehow -- I don't need it to make perfect sense) and then boiled electrolyzed water can be somewhat more efficient than regular water in power generation. Alternately, use it just as a heating source, but that seems a little silly.

Also, Vilim, you are well into "pissing off the dev" territory at this point -- you're arguing with me for no apparent reason, and you're polluting my issue tracker. This kind of discussion would've been appropriate for the LiquidUU thread, but I thought it wasn't going to be a terribly long one. Since you're obviously in an arguing mood, go argue over there, and don't make me block you out of ever contributing via github.