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Data from the Places system.
http://www.nps.gov/npmap/tools/places/
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New toilet presets: Flush Toilet & Vault Toilet #775

Closed mtaylorlong closed 8 years ago

mtaylorlong commented 8 years ago

I'd like to propose two additional presets for more specifically identifying types of restrooms: Flush Toilet and Vault Toilet.

We currently support two types for restrooms: Restroom and Floating Restroom. I believe the Restroom type will still remain the most commonly used, but in cases when more specific data is available, I see value in distinguishing between flush toilets and vault toilets. Yellowstone has requested this distinction and I believe other parks would find value in it as well. Furthermore, OSM tagging standards already exist for this distinction. Here's how I propose we do it:

tags Type Class Superclass
amenity=toilet Restroom Restroom Accommodation
amenity=toilet, toilets:disposal=flush Flush Toilet Restroom Accommodation
amenity=toilet, toilets:disposal=pitlatrine Vault Toilet Restroom Accommodation

One decision may warrant further discussion: Is the type Vault Toilet adequate in describing what may be a pit toilet? The OSM tagging approach considers any pit, lined or unlined, the same which we interpret to include cement chamber pits as are common in many parks. Therefore, it would be best to use only the toilets:disposal=pitlatrine tag to identify vault toilets and pit toilets, and since vault toilets are so common in parks, we'd simply call the type Vault Toilet. I recognize there is a distinction between a vault and pit toilet, but from the visitor's perspective, I think it's perfectly adequate to consider any non-flushing toilet one type: Vault Toilet.

cc: @cwlawlis802, @jimmyrocks, @jakecoolidge, @asouthwould

chadlawlis commented 8 years ago

This makes sense to me.

How does this sound to you @asouthwould?

asouthwould commented 8 years ago

Sounds good to me as well. What about you @heidiogle?

heidiogle commented 8 years ago

Good idea, Taylor! Those distinctions are generally management/maintenance issues but as a visitor, I always like to know too. So sounds good to me as well.

mtaylorlong commented 8 years ago

Great! It sounds like everyone is okay using the simpler term "Vault Toilet" to cover any kind of non-flush toilet. If so, I think we can proceed.

heidiogle commented 8 years ago

Restroom, Flush toilet & Pit toilet all sound good to me. The lined discussion is inconsequential to visitors.

mtaylorlong commented 8 years ago

The question then is whether or not we say "Pit Toilet" or "Vault Toilet". I think we're all in agreement that they should refer to the same thing, so it's really a matter of which term will be more widely recognized by NPS editors. We were proposing using the name "Vault Toilet" but it sounds like @heidiogle uses the term "Pit Toilet". If anyone can think of a way to help us decide which is best, I'd appreciate it. I feel ill-equipped to make the final call.

heidiogle commented 8 years ago

Oh sorry, Vault toilet is fine by me. I honestly have no idea which is more prevalent across the service. Given this, why not just add in Pit toilet as an optional word to Vault toilet (like graveyard is an optional word to cemetery).

asouthwould commented 8 years ago

I ran an informal survey around here and we're indifferent. I like @heidiogle's suggestion to have "Vault Toilet" as the primary name with "Pit Toilet" as an alternative.

chadlawlis commented 8 years ago

Great, we'll go with "Vault Toilet" as the preset name and add "Pit Toilet" to the list of search terms.

Thanks for chiming in @asouthwould @heidiogle 👍

bdiethorn commented 8 years ago

Vault toilets and pit toilets are fundamentally different. Vault toilets are prefab tanks while pit toilets are simply a hole in the ground. in the NPS Vaults are more common than pits for environmental reasons however there are some geographically remote situations where pits are the only option.

Although different they both usually are without plumbing.

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Heidi Ogle notifications@github.com wrote:

Oh sorry, Vault toilet is fine by me. I honestly have no idea which is more prevalent across the service. Given this, why not just add in Pit toilet as an optional word to Vault toilet (like graveyard is an optional word to cemetery).

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/nationalparkservice/places-data/issues/775#issuecomment-240837427, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AK1E2B4_VLYHY07bIWR7dgg3Yp6Fq3ngks5qhLi1gaJpZM4Jm3vS .

Brian Diethorn - Research Associate Facilities Management GIS Data Manager Park Facilities Management Division & Resource Information Services Division National Park Service

Phone: 303.987.6976 Fax: 303.987.7636

chadlawlis commented 8 years ago

Thanks @bdiethorn - that context is helpful.

Both Flush Toilet and Vault Toilet have been added to the spreadsheet and will go live once the presets are regenerated, which I plan on doing soon.

bdiethorn commented 8 years ago

If I were to make a suggestion I would add pit toilet as well because of the difference maintenance scenario's that each option presents. Vaults require being emptied more often than pits.

That being said if you don't add it I will not lose sleep over it. Just my two cents.

Cheers

ps. didn't expect I would put forth this much thought into toilets today!

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Chad Lawlis notifications@github.com wrote:

Thanks @bdiethorn https://github.com/bdiethorn - that context is helpful.

Both Flush Toilet and Vault Toilet have been added to the spreadsheet and will go live once the presets are regenerated, which I plan on doing soon.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/nationalparkservice/places-data/issues/775#issuecomment-240856045, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AK1E2NhgTWd8EUW2fEXBfYSjK-TcipQEks5qhMi0gaJpZM4Jm3vS .

Brian Diethorn - Research Associate Facilities Management GIS Data Manager Park Facilities Management Division & Resource Information Services Division National Park Service

Phone: 303.987.6976 Fax: 303.987.7636

chadlawlis commented 8 years ago

Thanks for the input @bdiethorn. The tagging schema really only supports one tag that covers both pit and vault toilets at this point, so for the sake of the schema and simplicity we're going to stick with the one type to cover both. If the need arises to differentiate between the two using Places we'll certainly revisit it.

And ya, we've spent a solid chunk of the past day debating toilet types... It's the little things :)

chadlawlis commented 8 years ago

These are now live.