nelsonic / learn-music

Learn how to play music from first principals.
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Which Guitar for Beginners? #32

Closed nelsonic closed 4 years ago

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

I have played guitar at various points in my life but I still consider myself a "beginner" ... I don't currently own a guitar because I gave mine away to my cousin when I went to University wanted to focus on my studies. He didn't touch it so I should just ask for it back. But it's easier to just get a new one. (don't ask ... 🙄)

This is a good video comparing the sound of Nylon and Steel string acoustic guitars: image https://youtu.be/JL4w3ixUDdw I prefer the sound of the Nylon but the versatility of the Steel string.

7 Acoustic Guitar Body Shapes, Their Differences and Sounds: image https://youtu.be/F9TZwTtXYSY

There is definitely too much choice! 🙄

I think the easiest thing is to simply guide oneself by budget and then filter for the types of guitars you can afford. I'm not looking to spend very much but I also don't want a piece of junk that I will constantly need to retune.

Epiphone PRO-1 NA Natural - this guitar is designed to be easy to play by beginners. https://www.musicstore.com/en_PT/EUR/Epiphone-PRO-1-NA-Natural/art-GIT0038933-000 image

Watch the intro video to get a good idea of the characteristics of this instrument:

Epiphone PR-4E Player Pack - this is obviously made to a price, but it's great that it comes with an Amp and a Case! https://www.musicstore.com/en_PT/EUR/Epiphone-PR-4E-Player-Pack/art-GIT0035583-000 image

image https://youtu.be/zyZZuyy73kU

Fender FA-125CE NAT https://www.egitana.pt/fender-fa-125ce-nat image

This model is available at our local music store: https://www.salaomozart.com/product/885978936496 image I obvs prefer to buy from a local seller as it means the VAT is kept in PT and provides local employment.

The local shop doesn't have anything less than €100 ($112 USD at time of writing) https://www.salaomozart.com/shop/instrumentos-musicais-1/guitarras-e-baixos/guitarra-eletroacustica# image

I'm OK with spending the €155 on the Fender or even more on something else if the sound is noticeably better and/or it's easier for beginners to get started with playing. 💭

I will treat myself to a new instrument once I've finished building the first Kitchen @home https://github.com/dwyl/home/issues/54 I don't want to get distracted with practicing for hours while there is still "blocker" work to be done.

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

This Yamaha F310P2WS pack is a good option too: https://www.musicstore.com/en_PT/EUR/Yamaha-F310P2WS-Acoustic-Guitar-Pack-Natural-/art-GIT0027341-000 image

I like the idea of having a stand so that there is less inertia to play. 💭 Sadly this guitar (Pack) is not available anywhere in PT (that I can find) ... And I don't really want to pay €30 shipping cost unnecessarily ... (shipping is free over €200) I might as well get the Fender (above) and spend the shipping money on a stand.

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

This pack is dope: https://www.musicstore.com/en_PT/EUR/Epiphone-Slash-AFD-Les-Paul-Special-II-Performance/art-GIT0030927-000 image

The biggest advantage of a solid body Electric Guitar is being able to practice quietly:

image

i.e. you either don't plug it in and the noise level is comparatively low or you plug in to the Amp but use headphones to listen to the sound.

Something to consider ... 💭

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

Comparison of the two Epiphone guitars I’m considering: https://youtu.be/vOLee5dYmuM

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

image

People who claim to be able to tell the difference in a blind test are either audiophiles, studio sound engineers or lying to you.

Also ... if this Rainbow one wasn't double the price ... 💭 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epiphone-Paul-Tribute-Prizm-Outfit/dp/B07JQMVMZ2 image

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

In this "Epiphone vs. Gibson Les Paul Blindfold Challenge", Rob "Chappers" Chapman (of Chapman Guitars) mistakes an Epiphone for a Gibson: image https://youtu.be/aGTvjbbVl-o?t=448 And at 11 mins he says of the Gibson "this feels like an Epiphone to me".

image

Again, anyone who thinks they can tell them apart in a blind test is lying. There are so many variables in what makes the sound of an Electric guitar that it's really difficult to tell the difference.

The Epiphone Les Paul Classic is closest to a "real" Les Paul: https://www.musicstore.com/en_PT/EUR/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Classic-Heritage-Cherry-Sunburst/art-GIT0051923-000 image

This feels like a lot of money to pay for a hobby ... 💭

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

After much research, I've come to understand that the best value-for-money beginner electric guitar is Epiphone Les Paul Studio LT which costs €199: https://www.musicstore.com/en_PT/EUR/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Studio-LT-Heritage-Cherry-Sunburst-/art-GIT0042551-000 image

image https://youtu.be/n6dgJ2wT3Kc

Obviously there are some "haters" on the video as there are with any YT video. Haters gonna hate. But This guitar is both easy to play and sounds decent. The pickups are slightly cheaper, but they still sound good to my ears (I'm listening with "studio monitor" headphones). 🎧

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

This is definitely not a "beginner" guitar. But it's a comparatively reasonably priced Gibson: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gibson-Les-Paul-Studio-fireburst-and-HARD-CASE/233626219745 image

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

Still really like the look of the Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plus Pro: https://www.thomann.de/gb/epiphone_les_paul_standard_plus_pro_dl.htm C723FECA-E60D-4615-BEFC-303E2760240E

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

Yesterday after work, we went to the guitar store and I tried a few guitars. Didn't like the feel of the Gibson Les Paul. The edge of the body was sharp and cut into my right arm and the neck seemed too short. The ergonomics felt "off". Maybe I will reconsider it in the future once I've relearned how to play and can appreciate it's form-factor. But for now I'm definitely not getting one.

I much prefer the ergonomics on the Strat and I feel that it's way more beginner friendly. 🎸

After watching a few videos on the Yamaha SLG200N (aka "Silent Guitar") I'm convinced that the combination of low noise while practicing and superb sound when amplified is a winner. Obviously it's not "cheap" at €600, which is more than the second hand Gibson Les Paul I was considering before I tried it in the shop ... But I feel this is a good investment if I'm going to re-learn and enjoy playing guitar.

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

https://www.musicstore.com/en_PT/EUR/search?SearchTerm=Yamaha+silent+guitar A91A7FFE-14CE-4805-A8DF-9CBF920BDC65

https://www.musicstore.com/en_PT/EUR/Yamaha-Silent-Guitar-SLG-200-NW-Natural-Nylon/art-GIT0041064-000

A05D5A7B-A957-4C19-9C59-DC86577BDE58

The Yamaha SLG200 is more expensive than a MIM Fender Strat: https://www.musicstore.com/en_PT/EUR/Fender-Player-Series-Stratocaster-MN-BLK/art-GIT0045987-000

285B42F9-8EFD-4B3E-A39D-B5809A41B7BE

I genuinely prefer the sound of an accoustic guitar and think I will enjoy playing and recording with it more.

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

https://m.olx.pt/anuncio/yamaha-silent-slg200s-c-garantia-oportunidade-IDFM1gt.html 9217FCE1-D049-454D-9BF5-C732145BAD13

Sent message asking if they still have it. 🤞

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

Anatomy of an Acoustic Guitar: https://theacousticguitarist.com/anatomy-of-an-acoustic-guitar image

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

This video shows how quiet the Yamaha SLG200S Silent Guitar is when not plugged in to an Amplifier: image https://youtu.be/j2z0NRz6caU

It's obviously not "silent". It makes a similar level of noise to an electric guitar but it has a wider neck nut which makes easier to play and the sound is really good.

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

This Ibanez V50NJP-NT Jam Pack is very good value for money: https://www.musicstore.com/en_PT/EUR/Ibanez-Jampack-VC50NJP-NT-Natural/art-GIT0026847-000V000151709 image

Cheaper at our local Music shop: https://www.salaomozart.com/product/ibanez-v50njp-nt-jam-pack image

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

After a lot of research into the Yamaha Silent Guitars: https://github.com/nelsonic/learn-music/issues/32#issuecomment-656998318 ⬆️
(I watched 20+ videos and read 10 forum threads on it on Saturday night when I couldn't sleep ...!)

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/guitars_basses/silent_guitar/slg200_series image

Brief overview: https://youtu.be/9GKHr3lWb3g image

Extended product intro: https://youtu.be/kANP9OgwpMY image

Professional Musician review: https://youtu.be/N8rcyfbQ1Vo image

Cesar is a professional touring/session musician who has many guitars and he swears by the SLG200S for practice, live performance and recording. Watch this comparison video he made: https://youtu.be/9xp8tZMkxQs

image

In this video, Aaron Short explains why the https://youtu.be/im3-50drfbY image

The video has a few dislikes/comments from people who really don't get it! 🤦 Obviously a "real" acoustic guitar sounds better because the sound is "real". But for my requirements, low noise, this guitar is absolutely purrrrfect!

image

tl;dr

I bought a second hand Yamaha SLG200s with a 2 year warranty (I got all the paperwork transferred over). It was purchased on on 5th May 2020 for €610 by a chap who apparently didn't like the sound:

image

He wanted to get rid of it so he sold it for €450 (26% discount). It doesn't have a single scratch on it. In the process met Luthier Marcelo Gatti who is an absolute gem of a person!

https://www.olx.pt/anuncio/yamaha-silent-slg200s-c-garantia-oportunidade-IDFM1gt.html image

€610 is the price in most online shops. Music Store has them for €609 https://github.com/nelsonic/learn-music/issues/32#issuecomment-657001254 (above) https://www.musicstore.com/pt_PT/EUR/Yamaha-Silent-Guitar-SLG-200-S-Natural-Steel-Strings/art-GIT0035754-000

While this is definitely (quite a lot more) than I wanted to spend on a guitar, 💸 I've been playing it this evening and it sounds fantastic!! 😍 And by that I mean it's lack of noise is amazing! 🔇 I've been playing a few (very basic) songs with headphones plugged in and it's amazing!! 100% no regrets spending a bit more money on this guitar.

Now I need to buy a wall mount to hang it within easy reach. #36

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

While I was at Marcelo's shop on Saturday, he had this exact Epiphone Les Paul Standard (Pro) with ProBucker pickups, LockTone Tune-o-Matic bridge + stop bar and Grover Rotomatics tuners.

https://migueldelgadoesilva.olx.pt/anuncio/epiphone-les-paul-standard-IDFKfYm.html image

It has a few scratches on the headstock: image

a few minor marks on the body: image

and one burn mark on the top from where someone has clearly rested a cigarette on it: 🤦 image

The photo is taken under bright (harsh) lighting so the burn appears much worse than it is IRL! I held it up-close and the mark is barely noticeable unless you go searching for it!

epiphone-lespaul-standard-pro

His "cash" price was €280 which is absurdly cheap for this instrument!

For reference the Epiphone Les Paul Standard Pro is the top of the range in the Epiphone lineup:

https://www.musicstore.com/en_PT/EUR/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Standard-60s-Bourbon-Burst/art-GIT0051912-000 image

image

Just the tuner machine heads on this guitar cost £80 https://www.thomann.de/gb/grover_gr10218c_rotomatics.htm image

The Probucker pickups retail for $169: https://www.epiphone.com/Gear/Pickups-and-Electronics/IEPB image

I could strip this guitar down and sell it for parts and make more money than he is asking for it!! 🤯

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

This is a bargain price for the Fender FA-125 Dreadnought WN Sunburst https://www.egitana.pt/fender-fa-125-dreadnought-wn-sunburst image

Going to stick with the SLG200S for now.

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/best-beginner-guitars-for-new-guitar-players#what-types-of-electric-guitars-are-there image

nelsonic commented 4 years ago

Dagan’s review of the SLG200 (published 2 weeks after I got it) “this thing is amazing to play”: https://youtu.be/jTpCoJDsE_M

nelsonic commented 4 months ago

Considering: Fender CD-140SCE V2 Natural https://www.salaomozart.com/product/fender-cd-140sce-natural

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as a gift for co-owner of Gerês to leave there for when they visit and want to practice. 🎸

iteles commented 4 months ago

If you gift a guitar to this person it will Not be left in Gerês. You can't attach a location clause to a mobile gift someone is actually interested in having in their home where they can use it more than 3 or 4 times a year 😅

If you want to have a guitar in Gerês then we take one and leave it there but it will not be a gift to anyone, it'll be us leaving something there. Which is fine. But seems like a waste to have such an expensive guitar there - it will get wrecked by other people without a doubt. There should be a cheaper, easily replaceable guitar there. And if you want to own this fender, just buy it for our home 👌🏻

nelsonic commented 4 months ago

@iteles thank you for your interest in this topic. 🎉 Indeed ... with a hard case it's a very portable "mobile gift". 🚗 And I have no intention of making the location "conditional". But I did get a green light from the other co-owner 🟢 to put a wall-mount in Gerês so there will be a place for it. ✅ The point is this: the person doesn't have time to practice the guitar ⏳ in their "normal" place of residence. But on "holiday" they do have time. 👌

Perhaps I should have just written: researching a good guitar to buy with the profits a recent investment windfall. 📈 💰 and not said who it was for. 👌

iteles commented 4 months ago

I just wanted you to be aware of the wording. If you present it as a gift for a specific person who has handed in her notice and will be retiring and have nothing to do from September onwards, it will not stay in Gerês 👌🏻

nelsonic commented 4 months ago

The guitar I would like to get for myself is 10x the price of this already very good Fender. https://www.musicstore.com/pt_PT/EUR/Gibson-Songwriter-2019-CE-Antique-Natural-/art-GIT0046989-000

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"DEAL!" indeed ... 🤣 Within the "higher end" acoustic guitars this Songwriter is a deal!

image

It's widely regarded as a "perfect" guitar. 😍

But ... I'm definitely not spending this kind of money on a guitar in the near future!! ⏳ Instead I'm conserving all of my capital for a much bigger prise!