Add Additional Member Role: "Producer"

[tonyzeoli]

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe. Radio Shows have Producers, so if a Host can edit a Show, we should add the role of Producer, as well.

Describe the solution you'd like

• Admin can assign a User the role of "Producer"
• Producer can Edit Show, Add Playlist, Schedule Overrides, set Encore Presentation
• Display as "Producer(s): User A, User B, User C on the Show Page
• Do not display in Widgets, is not necessary.

Describe alternatives you've considered N/A

Additional context N/A

[tonyzeoli]

@majick777 I was considering this for Pro, but really this would help with user adoption in the free version. It's just a duplicate of the user role of host and shouldn't be too difficult to replicate.

[tonyzeoli]

We discussed on Skype.

Let's go with Show Producer. Station Manager might be the admin. And, they can add a team post type and list out all their station employees in that way. Plus the Show Producer might blog where the Station Manager might not.

We want to stay as close to Shows as possible here and not the station itself. The plugin is for Shows and everything that happens around individual shows. The station site can have separate pages for their About and Station Team.

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 7:06 PM majick777 notifications@github.com wrote:

I'm not sure by Producer whether it is clear as a Show Host / DJ, initially I thought you may be meaning like a Station Manager, ie program producer... which is another role that could be added (basically like administrator but without the website admin capabilities, just radio station management the caps.)

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[majick777]

Instead of "Station Manager" (which is probably more an admin role) I am thinking a better role label for having edit capabilities without admin ones is actually "Show Editor" since it is more on par with the existing Editor role.

[tonyzeoli]

I hear what you're saying, but I'm firm in my opinion it should be Show Producer. The Show Producer must be "credited" as the participating Producer of the show and their name(s) must be printed on the page. If they post blog posts, they will have post archive pages. A Producer is a KEY role in terms of who is helping to advance show content and ideas. A Show Producer is a critical role for most radio shows.

I can guarantee they do not want to be called "Show Editor." Radio Shows don't have "Editors." They have "Audio Engineers" and "Board Operators" and "Interns" but they don't have Editors. Magazines have Editors, but they also have Producers, as well.

Sure, a Podcast could have an Audio Editor. A television show could have a Video Editor. But it's really publishing that has Editors, not Radio or Television - they have Executive Producer, Managing Producer, Senior Producer, Supervising Producer.

Here's an example on Indeed.com, a popular Jobs site: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=morning+show+producer&l=

Here's how I see it:

Asheville House Music Society Host / DJ: Tony Z, DJ PDub Show Producer(s): John Test, Suzy Sample, Billy Bubble

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 8:17 PM majick777 notifications@github.com wrote:

Instead of "Station Manager" (which is probably more an admin role) I am thinking a better role label for having edit capabilities without admin ones is actually "Show Editor" since it is more on par with the existing Editor role.

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[tonyzeoli]

Show Name: Asheville House Music Society Host(s) / DJ(s): Tony Z, DJ PDub Show Producer(s): John Test, Suzy Sample, Billy Bubble

P.S. There also may be multiple producers for a given show.

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On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 10:09 PM Anthony Zeoli az@digitalstrategyworks.com wrote:

I hear what you're saying, but I'm firm in my opinion it should be Show Producer. The Show Producer must be "credited" as the participating Producer of the show and their name(s) must be printed on the page. If they post blog posts, they will have post archive pages. A Producer is a KEY role in terms of who is helping to advance show content and ideas. A Show Producer is a critical role for most radio shows.

I can guarantee they do not want to be called "Show Editor." Radio Shows don't have "Editors." They have "Audio Engineers" and "Board Operators" and "Interns" but they don't have Editors. Magazines have Editors, but they also have Producers, as well.

Sure, a Podcast could have an Audio Editor. A television show could have a Video Editor. But it's really publishing that has Editors, not Radio or Television - they have Executive Producer, Managing Producer, Senior Producer, Supervising Producer.

Here's an example on Indeed.com, a popular Jobs site: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=morning+show+producer&l=

Here's how I see it:

Asheville House Music Society Host / DJ: Tony Z, DJ PDub Show Producer(s): John Test, Suzy Sample, Billy Bubble

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 8:17 PM majick777 notifications@github.com wrote:

Instead of "Station Manager" (which is probably more an admin role) I am thinking a better role label for having edit capabilities without admin ones is actually "Show Editor" since it is more on par with the existing Editor role.

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[tonyzeoli]

Hmm, I guess I'm wrong about the "editor" role. I must be getting old. But at the end of the day editor and producer can be combined.

See: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=351195644

This is the Team page for an NPR show.

So, instead of having a "role" for anyone contributing to the Show, they have a "Team" page that is just an open page where they list team members.

But, I really want the Show Producer to get credit on the page and have blog posts tied to them.

So, why don't we do this...

Show Editor(s) / Producer (s): Name, Name, Name and that will solve the issue.

In my research of probably 5 show pages on radio station websites, most stations only list the Hosts on the Show page and they don't list the other team members in that area, but NPR does give a Team page to the menu.

If there is no Editor / Producer role created, then we shouldn't show an empty list. It should only appear when the role is assigned to the show. We may want to do that on Host / DJ as well, which will prompt users to add one.

[majick777]

Yes I already agree on the Producer role, sorry I wasn't being clear there. That is, having the show Producer role separate and on par with DJ / Host, and assigning them to a Show the same way and listing them on the Show page as you said.

What I was trying to get to with "Show Editor" was the other role possibility, that has editor capabilities but is not a (website) administrator. So more of a station "programmer", ie. someone who helps set the schedule and so forth. While this could be the station manager, they would have administrator role already so there is no point in that.

But rather, a role to allow for any number of team members who need to be able to edit Show content. We don't have to worry about displaying it anywhere on the public side, or worry about what that label would mean there, as stations can show their team structure on a page with actual real-life roles however they like. Rather, for it being available as a backend user role for the team, and so just trying to label it in a way that it is clear as to what that role does - allow a user to edit any Show information and assign Producers / Hosts to a Show (rather than Hosts / Producers who can only edit shows they are assigned to.)

[tonyzeoli]

Ah, okay. Yeah, the ADMIN to WordPress in a small station is either the station owner or station manager - they are going to have admin access and I think that's sufficient enough for one of them to act as ADMIN. Maybe it's just "Manager" and that person can manage all shows added to the system.

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 6:09 PM majick777 notifications@github.com wrote:

Yes I already agree on the Producer role, sorry I wasn't being clear there. That is, having the show Producer role separate and on par with DJ / Host, and assigning them to a Show the same way and listing them on the Show page as you said.

What I was trying to get to with "Show Editor" was the other role possibility, that has editor capabilities but is not a (website) administrator. So more of a station "programmer", ie. someone who helps set the schedule and so forth. While this could be the station manager, they would have administrator role already so there is no point in that.

But rather, a role to allow for any number of team members who need to be able to edit Show content. We don't have to worry about displaying it anywhere on the public side, or worry about what that label would mean there, as stations can show their team structure on a page with actual real-life roles however they like. Rather, for it being available as a backend user role for the team, and so just trying to label it in a way that it is clear as to what that role does - allow a user to edit any Show information and assign Producers / Hosts to a Show (rather than Hosts / Producers who can only edit shows they are assigned to.)

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[majick777]

Agreed but in a slightly larger station as you say there may be a team of people not just the owner / manager and this is where I see the "Show Editor" role being useful. Just like an Editor on a large blog or news site would not have admin rights so they can't break the site, so too a Show Editor would be able to be assigned by the owner/manager to a user so they can edit and manage the shows without needing to be a full admin.

[tonyzeoli]

Right, so can’t we just do what we do with Host / DJ and make it Show Editor / Producer? Just combine them and have it as one role.

Example:

Host(s) / DJ(s): Tony Z, Tony Hayes

Show Editor(s) / Producer(s): Joe Joe, Bill Bill, John John

I don’t think we need to add a third user role if we combine the two terms into one role, is that okay with you?

There’s always going to be a master administrator or administrators who are granted full rights like the webmaster or the station owner or the operations manager or the technical engineer.

Remember that anyone can use a role manager plugin like Members and add a new role themselves, so just following along the “less is more” philosophy of the WordPress developer community where we assume or take into consideration that one can do more on their own and we don’t have to plan for every use case, the station administrator can create more user roles If they want and we can always share that in the FAQ.

The only reason we are really doing this one is to give “credit” on the Show Page to other contributors.

Any new role created with Members would be hidden anyway from the general public, because those names aren’t being printed to the Show Page.

Plus WordPress already has an Editor role, right? So if that’s the case the Editor role should be able to edit Show Pages, create Playlists, and whatever else the Show Producer can do.

And we could just then have:

Editor(s): John Smith, Tori Amos Producers: Bill Blass, Tony Hawk

But like I saw in the one link I sent, some play a dual role as Editor / Producer, which I didn’t know and that’s why I think it makes sense to combine the role.

If we have two roles:

Editor Show Editor

I don’t think they really differ in any way. I totally forgot we already have Editor as a Default user role. Not sure if Editor can do everything that DJ does, but I would assume so. I haven’t checked.

But then you couldn’t add one person to two roles. They have to register twice under two different email addresses.

So I think Show Editor / Producer is fine and then there’s always the generic Editor role. An Editor should be able to edit all shows where a Show Editor / Producer only the show they are assigned to

Does that make sense?

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 12:52 AM majick777 notifications@github.com wrote:

Agreed but in a slightly larger station as you say there may be a team of people not just the owner / manager and this is where I see the "Show Editor" role being useful. Just like an Editor on a large blog or news site would not have admin rights so they can't break the site, so too a Show Editor would be able to be assigned by the owner/manager to a user so they can edit and manage the shows without needing to be a full admin.

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[majick777]

Plus WordPress already has an Editor role, right? So if that’s the case the Editor role should be able to edit Show Pages, create Playlists, and whatever else the Show Producer can do.

This is what I'm getting at and trying to solve actually, because edit rights for the Radio Station post types aren't explicitly mapped to the existing WordPress Editor role - so they can't even edit any of those right now. What I was thinking above was that we add another role that can edit only Radio Station post types and call it "Show Editor" (nothing really to do with the DJ / Producer roles.)

Alternatively, we can just add the edit rights to the existing Editor role (and publish rights to the existing Author role? etc.) It doesn't quite allow for the same "separation of concerns" as adding a new role, but then, as you say if that is needed the user can set that up themselves. As I think about it now, the only thing tipping the balance is that this second approach makes more sense since Posts can be related to Shows and they would need to be able to edit those... So I think we should grant the edit rights to the existing Editor role and maybe Publish rights to the Author role too.

As for multiple roles, WordPress has the facility in-built, but does not provide the interface for it on the Edit User screen (super annoying and silly really!) But yes that can be done with the Role Editor plugin - or more simply with a Multiple Role plugin which adds the field interface. So I don't think we need to get too concerned about multiple roles, as again if they need it they can do it. I did think a nice Pro feature would be an interface to assign users any of the Radio Station roles though, that'd be a pretty easy one to do and make a nice Pro feature.

[tonyzeoli]

Okay, let's go with your suggestions. Good stuff.

[majick777]

Added a new issue for Role Assignment Interface feature: #77

I decided to add plugin admin options to make these extra permission settings optional:

1. Grant Show / Playlist / Override publish and edit rights to existing WordPress Editors.
2. Grant Show / Playlist publish (and authored-edit) rights to existing WordPress Authors.
3. Enable new Show Editor role, with publish and edit rights for all the Radio Station post types.

I think that covers it so far, unless there is something that doesn't cover.

We could also discuss permissions for possible future (Pro?) post types, though they will probably follow a similar pattern.

• Episodes - could be handled with existing Playlist permissions?
• DJ/Host and Producer Profiles - could be handled with existing Show permissions (and give DJs/Hosts/Producer roles ability to publish/edit their own single profile post.)

[majick777]

On further thought, I'm not sure it makes sense to make it a plugin option to enable the Show Editor role, for reason, that role might be assigned to a user, then turned off by accident and then the user loses access because the role has disappeared. May as well just add it in and leave it be as done for whoever wants to use it.

The Producer role has been added for 2.3.0 and working fine so I'll close this one as done for now, we can discuss permissions for future Pro post types separately. I'll make a new issue for those. The basic patterns for those are in place for those now anyway.