The mustachio gong on DaC 4 (c2m4_barns) balancing

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Let me just start of by saying that I'm not "demanding" anything here.. I just 
feel that this game mechanic really needs to be looked at. As I'm sure everyone 
is aware, hitting the "mustachio gong" as a tank on dark carnival map 4 
(c2m4_barns) will summon a very large horde. This so called feature needs to be 
disabled in my opinion. 

If you get an early tank spawn on that map, chances are the survivors won't 
have any molotov or throwable at all for that matter. If you don't have a 
molotov there is really nothing you can do as survivors to stop the tank from 
hitting the gong. Also take into consideration that european (ESL) rules 
doesn't allow the survivors to be in the saferoom while tank is alive. Around 
this tank spawn the infected already have plenty of good spawnpoints and the 
tank has many hitables, and I think the tank also having a completely free and 
very large horde simply makes this tank spawn overpowered and unbalanced. You 
disabled natural hordes during tank a long time ago, and I think this feature 
falls under the same category. Also I'm guessing this game mechanic was meant 
as some kind of easter egg by valve, and I personally think it has no place in 
a competitive enviroment. 

So a few suggestions:

1. Disable the "mustachio gong" horde spawn by default.

2. Create a cvar to disable this specific horde spawn, so that certain leagues 
and server owners can choose to disable the horde spawn.

3. Limit the horde size of this specific horde spawn drastically. 

4. Create a cvar to remove the mustachio gong (the actuall model physically). 
This so that people won't be as confused, hitting the gong and no horde 
spawning will probably make people wonder whats going on the first few times. 

Again I'm not demanding anything. Feel free to agree or disagree, just explain 
why. 

Thank you. 

Original issue reported on code.google.com by maroll...@gmail.com on 3 Jan 2011 at 12:39

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How about you request ESL adds a rule saying you aren't allowed to hit the 
gong.  If they are able to add a rule saying you can't be in the saferoom, it 
seems logical that they can add other rules to make this rule feasible.

Original comment by Canada.R...@gmail.com on 3 Jan 2011 at 1:01

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Having ESL change their rules will only affect a certain part of the 
competitive community, so I don't see how it's a valid solution. 

Original comment by maroll...@gmail.com on 3 Jan 2011 at 1:41

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I don't understand how one ESL rule applies to all Europeans and other rules 
only apply to certain people.

Original comment by Canada.R...@gmail.com on 3 Jan 2011 at 2:22

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Sorry Canada but either you misunderstood the point of this report from the 
start, or you are intentionally taking one sentence out of context and think 
it's what I'm trying to discuss.

Read my original post again please. I brought up the european rules to point 
out that europeans playing by ESL rules doesn't fight tanks inside saferoom, 
wich makes this tank spawn even harder for people playing by ESL rules. However 
I still think the gong feature is awfully unbalanced and something that 
shouldn't be in a competitive config. No matter if you're from NA or EU and no 
matter what rules you play by, what I'm trying to say remains the same. 

This report was created to discuss/possibly do something about the gong 
feature. Not to discuss ESL rules. 

Original comment by maroll...@gmail.com on 3 Jan 2011 at 3:48

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You could go into the saferoom to help deal with the horde from that gong and 
then leave the saferoom afterwards. 

Original comment by prodigysim@gmail.com on 3 Jan 2011 at 4:01

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"wich makes this tank spawn even harder for people playing by ESL rules" so if 
they play by ESL rules, why wouldn't ESL updating their ruleset stop people 
from hitting the game?  It is perfectly balanced in NA.  Most of the time the 
survivors have a molotov or a pipe at that point, so they fall back into the 
saferoom and the horde is wasted.  Many teams also deliberately take a shot and 
hit the game that way so the tank can't do it.

The entire "unbalance" you are talking about is created by ESL ruleset, so it 
is their responsibility, not ours, to make sure their rules are correctly 
balanced.

Original comment by Canada.R...@gmail.com on 3 Jan 2011 at 4:04

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It's also possible that you could simply add an entity to entityremove.txt to 
get rid of the moustachio game.

Original comment by prodigysim@gmail.com on 3 Jan 2011 at 7:10

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Thought I had already done this...

Original comment by Canada.R...@gmail.com on 4 Jan 2011 at 4:08

• Changed state: WontFix

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So you decide to close it without waiting for a response canada? Awesome, good 
to know you appriciate when people tries to contribute to the project.  

You obviously know the NA community better than me since I'm not american and 
I've never played in the NA community. However I know that several of the 
people I play with and against thinks that the gong is stupid and has no place 
in a competitive config, EVEN when fighting it off inside the saferoom. The 
times I've played with non-ESL rules and gotten this tank spawn and gone into 
the saferoom as survivor, this have still been a wipe tank the majority of the 
time.

What have happened is simply that the infected sends the tank in along with 
tricap spawns. Even if one or two infected misses their caps, the horde will 
still have pushed into the saferoom while the survivors was busy with the tank 
and SI, so the survivors gets horded and have a very hard time juking the tank. 
Something similar to what happens at 3:27 in this video: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsnRZTGSO8c

This is not common during NA scrims? Also I'd like to know what the logic is 
behind disabling natural hordes during tank, but keeping the gong in? 

@prodigysim If you could pass the text to put in entityremove.txt to me so I 
can try it out on my server I would be grateful, thank you.

Original comment by maroll...@gmail.com on 4 Jan 2011 at 5:46

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When you create an issue report specifically bringing up ESL rules as part of 
the problem, it is something we mark as WontFix because it is their 
responsibility to make sure their rules are correctly balanced.  If you think 
this is an issue regardless of the ESL ruleset, make an issue report that 
doesn't mention the ESL rules as part of the problem.  You are free to report 
this issue correctly and then I will happy to consider it.

Logic behind random hordes is, if you got boomed 90s ago and then a tank spawns 
a horde that is not being controlled by either team is spawned as the tank 
comes in.  How would one avoid this?  Get boomed on purpose.  Getting boomed 
isn't something the survivors should WANT so clearly it needed to be fixed.  
The gong however can be countered easily most of the times with a single 
molotov, pipe bomb or adrenaline shot.  (One of which is almost always found 
before the tank spawn.)  You may also notice we don't disable car alarms, event 
hordes or boomer hordes during tanks.  All of these can be prevented by the 
survivors (except the event horde in some situations) so they remain in place.

Original comment by Canada.R...@gmail.com on 4 Jan 2011 at 10:12