search

nodejs / admin

Administrative space for policies of the TSC
159 stars 135 forks source link

Events / Collaborator Summits for 2024 #814

Open mcollina opened 1 year ago

mcollina commented 1 year ago

In 2023, OpenJS World was colocated within Open Source Summit, reducing our "visibility" as a community, with only a few talks allocated to Node.js. Moreover, the collaborator summits were colocated with Open Source Summit.

Is this arrangement ok for us for 2024? Given that we have officially returned the Node.js Collaborator Summit title, I think we should be in the planning seat.

cc @ovflowd @ruyadorno @nodejs/tsc (please tag others).

mcollina commented 1 year ago

It's hard for me to justify spending time going to a place for a week if the conference/location is not tied to my startup, and I would not be going to Bilbao (despite my wanting to be there). I prefer the Node.js Collaborator Summit to be attached to a developer-focused conference.

ovflowd commented 1 year ago

Hmm, what's the ask here? I thought with https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/1399 we already agreed that the OpenJS Collaborator Summit is now Node.js Collaborator Summit. So there shouldn't be confusion regarding visibility, right?

Is the issue because we're being colocated on OpenJS World? I don't think this is a negative. If audience or visibility is the issue, well, we already announced as much as possible regarding the "Node.js Collaborator Summit" and, afaik we agreed that the summit is intentionally meant to have low attendance because it is meant for core collaborators?

It's hard for me to justify spending time going to a place for a week if the conference/location is not tied to my startup, and I would not be going to Bilbao (despite my wanting to be there). I prefer the Node.js Collaborator Summit to be attached to a developer-focused conference.

I don't understand this statement, and it sounds kind of a personal one. OpenJS World and Open Source Summit are Developer-focused Events, no? Why is it hard to justify attending Open Source Summit more than attending (I don't know, random example) NodeConf? Is it because Open Source Summit is a generic/diverse Developer conference, whereas NodeConf would be specialized in Node.js?

tniessen commented 1 year ago

Is it because Open Source Summit is a generic/diverse Developer conference, whereas NodeConf would be specialized in Node.js?

Yes, I believe that's it. We used to have conferences just about Node.js (which was great), then conferences about all of OpenJS (which was good), and now at Open Source Summit, Node.js seems more like an afterthought. When conferences had a strong focus on Node.js, they attracted not just users of Node.js but also Node.js collaborators, which made co-locating the conference and the collaborator summit attractive.

ovflowd commented 1 year ago

When conferences had a strong focus on Node.js, they attracted not just users of Node.js but also Node.js collaborators, which made co-locating the conference and the collaborator summit attractive.

That's fair.

mcollina commented 1 year ago

Hmm, what's the ask here?

The first point is that, because it's a Node.js Collaborator Summit, its organization should respond to the Node.js TSC and not the OpenJS CPC. It makes little sense to have a Node.js collab summit if the the TSC is not on board with dates/location.

Ultimately it's up to the Node.js TSC to propose some desiderata to the Foundation regarding this, as we did with the Node.js Collab Summit a long time ago.

Possible outcomes of this discussions are:

ovflowd commented 1 year ago

The first point is that, because it's a Node.js Collaborator Summit, its organization should respond to the Node.js TSC and not the OpenJS CPC. It makes little sense to have a Node.js collab summit if the the TSC is not on board with dates/location.

If that's the case, I don't have any say here. I would only humbly add these points:

I understand that the TSC should have a say here; I also recall that the TSC was fine -- once we migrated the OpenJS Collab Summit to the Node.js Collab Summit -- that I could still keep organizing the current one for Bilbao due to event being already too close and it was already being organised. But I wonder what's the future then? What sort of participation would the CPC or the Foundation have here, and how can we provide smooth sailing for the future?

I'm fine with whatever the TSC decides (not that what I think really matters), but I wonder, is this sort of change really needed? I genuinely had a good blast this last Collab Summit (2023 Vancouver) and I believe the Bilbao one might be even more fine-tuned, but ultimately I'm (and I assume the CPC and the Foundation) are here to listen, and understand your needs.

joyeecheung commented 1 year ago

I personally would prefer a Node.js collaboration summit co-located with a Node.js conference, and my impression is that I am not alone in this. If a (1-day) Node.js collaboration summit is co-located with a more generic multi-day conference, it’s harder to justify the travel, especially for those who have to fly >10+ hours to be there. If it’s a Node.js collaboration summit co-located with a Node.js conference, flying > 10+ hours to attend a multi-day Node.js thing is more justifiable, so it would be easier to gather more Node.js collaborators in the same room that way. Previously when we had the annual Node.js conferences, we also had an opportunity to gather a lot of Node.js collaborators in the same place and have interesting conversations in the co-located summit, and sometimes we even had TSC quorum in the same room. With the current set up though I think it is becoming harder to see TSC quorum in the same room again. Not saying we should be doing any changes to the upcoming summit, but I agree that it’s something we should think about for the next year.

mcollina commented 1 year ago

The current model was done due to resources and cost. Apparently, OpenJS having their own event was too costly to maintain, and being co-located with other LF events genuinely feels like a fair alternative.

Agreed! I was in the (board)room when this decision was made, and it's the most sensible one. Putting my Node.js TSC hat on, this arrangement does not work for Node.js, and plenty of collaborators shared the same point of view. Maybe it's just my echo chamber, but if this is the majority of us, we should communicate this so we are better supported in 2024.

Why is Node.js so important that it deserves more attention than other projects? In the grand scheme of things, how important is Node.js that it should have its own track on Open Source Summit, for example? (Just food for thought, as I'm not the right person to answer this question)

@ovflowd let me recap the level of support Node.js used to have across the years. At the beginning of the Node.js Foundation, the event was called Node.js Interactive. It was a 2/3 track multiday event, we used to have space to host Node.js Code&Learn there to teach people how to contribute to Node.js, and it was a great experience. You can watch the videos from the event in Portland of 2015 at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O28Knn00qYo&list=PLfMzBWSH11xYjL8oFumSfzOf6-kr8_t-o&pp=iAQB. The same level of support was done up to 2022.

(I was onboarded as a Node.js collaborator in person at the event in Portland in 2015).

Which other events would be appropriate to host a Node.js Collab Summit, since the nature of the Collab Summit is an official event of the project, what are the requirements here?

In the past, we have attached our events to JSConf.eu and NodeConf.eu. I suspect we can find quite a few good options on this topic with friendly organizers to help us promote (JSNation, NodeCongress, NodeConf.eu, CityJS, React Miami, . This requires more work for the organization volunteers: we begged for a cheap location to host us multiple times. In the past, we have been hosted by Mozilla, IBM, Google, and possibly a few others.

ovflowd commented 1 year ago

I personally would prefer a Node.js collaboration summit co-located with a Node.js conference, and my impression is that I am not alone in this. If a (1-day) Node.js collaboration summit is co-located with a more generic multi-day conference, it’s harder to justify the travel, especially for those who have to fly >10+ hours to be there. If it’s a Node.js collaboration summit co-located with a Node.js conference, flying > 10+ hours to attend a multi-day Node.js thing is more justifiable, so it would be easier to gather more Node.js collaborators in the same room that way.

That is 100% a fair and a convincing reason, and that makes sense. If that's the ask, then it does make sense to the Collab Summit to be hosted on an Event that is more Node.js/JavaScript focused.

joyeecheung commented 1 year ago

Also, I think it does not even have to be a Node.js-specific conference, it's just better to co-locate the summit to a conference that can attract contributors to Node.js and closely related upstream/downstream projects (Electron, V8, even TC39/WHATWG/W3C etc.) on its own - in that past the summit co-located with JSConf EU also worked very well because of this. While the whole concept of the Open Source Summit is still relatively new to me, based on what I learn from others, to the kind of contributors mentioned before, it's at least not yet as attractive on its own as some of the non-official conferences out there. I think the best thing we can do to make the collaboration summit more successful is to co-locate it with the conferences that can attract the most contributors in the ecosystems around Node.js on its own, which may or may not include the Open Source Summit, but that can also change as time goes by.

ovflowd commented 1 year ago

Agreed! I was in the (board)room when this decision was made, and it's the most sensible one. Putting my Node.js TSC hat on, this arrangement does not work for Node.js, and plenty of collaborators shared the same point of view. Maybe it's just my echo chamber, but if this is the majority of us, we should communicate this so we are better supported in 2024

I hear you. We might need to find more funding, regardless of where the Event is hosted.

This requires more work for the organization volunteers: we begged for a cheap location to host us multiple times. In the past, we have been hosted by Mozilla, IBM, Google, and possibly a few others.

It saddens me that we need to beg for big corporations that rely on us to give us a space.

ovflowd commented 1 year ago

I think the best thing we can do to make the collaboration summit more successful is to co-locate it with the conferences that can attract the most contributors in the ecosystems around Node.js on its own, which may or may not include the Open Source Summit, but that can also change as time goes by.

Then the intent is for the summit to be open for non-collaborators, or is the expectancy to be able to gather more current collaborators? I understand that previous events were successful in this model, but that was a pre-pandemic situation.

Are we confident that if we decide on a different model, that we'd actually get those collaborators (I understand that you and Matteo would definitely be a yes, but how confident are we on this?)

mcollina commented 1 year ago

Are we confident that if we decide on a different model, that we'd actually get those collaborators (I understand that you and Matteo would definitely be a yes, but how confident are we on this?)

This is the reason why I opened the issue, I'm asking what everybody thinks.

ovflowd commented 1 year ago

Are we confident that if we decide on a different model, that we'd actually get those collaborators (I understand that you and Matteo would definitely be a yes, but how confident are we on this?)

This is the reason why I opened the issue, I'm asking what everybody thinks.

Gotcha, I apologise for my excessive questioning. This is all new to me, and I just want to better understand the situation. (I guess my questions might also be relevant for outsiders and other collaborators unfamiliar of these concerns) 🙇

joyeecheung commented 1 year ago

From my past experience, if X Node.js collaborators are going to a conference already, chances are >90% of them would also show up at the co-located Node.js collaboration summit (as long as it's not on short notice, of course). The more Node.js-specific the conference is (if we are comparing conferences on a similar scale), the more Node.js collaborators would show up in the co-located summit. An interest survey about what kind of setup is more attractive to our collaborators might be useful to get more insights into this.

mhdawson commented 1 year ago

In agreement with what @joyeecheung just said, my personal take is that collocating the summit with a conference that pulls in people interested in Node.js so that there are two reasons to travel. The collaborator summit and a conference with substantial Node.js content.

Looking to 2024 in my opinion:

Either way we might want plan the collab summit before/after the conferences chosen, but not host them at the conference venue itself. That worked quite well in 2022 when it was aligned with NodeConf.eu but was not at the same location. It seems that trying to host at the same venue as a conference is expensive and we've found that something lower cost/less formal works just as well.

joyeecheung commented 1 year ago

It seems that trying to host at the same venue as a conference is expensive and we've found that something lower cost/less formal works just as well.

I also think that out of the collaboration summits that I've been to, the less formal ones worked just as well, if not better - the collaboration summit was supposed to be an unconference, after all. I understand that if the foundation is hosting it together with another official conference, doing it at the same venue could cost less (depending on the venue, I assume). But my overall impression about the collaboration summit is still stuck at a "just a bunch of Node.js folks discussing in front of a projector/whiteboard in an office/co-working space" kind of vibe, the "a bunch of Node.js folks discussing at some breakout rooms in a fancy conference center/hotel" vibe isn't bad or anything, but it feels, shall we say, less cool :)

mcollina commented 1 year ago

I agree with the plan laid out by @mhdawson.

wesleytodd commented 1 year ago

We had a bunch of discussions about this topic this past week. I think for most of the folks who attended we had two takeaways:

  1. We agreed going forward it would be better to colocate with a Node or JS focused conf (nodeconf eu or similar)
  2. We thought we might need to restructure the sessions to be more clear who the audience is

On the second point, the past few have been marketed in an unclear way. While we want new folks coming to them, we also want to meet and exceed their expectations. I have asked a few folks at the past two (Vancouver and Bilbao) who were first timers, and the feedback was that it was a bit confusing if they were allowed to come, and if so what the real goal of attendance was.

Additionally on that, I think the format we have been using with presentations has not been super effective at fostering the "deep work" that I think existing contributors really want. Our discussions about it really pointed out that to get the most value out of it we may want to reconsider the current approach.

To be clear, I do not mean this as a criticism, I still feel like it is valuable and the planning/execution has been great. Just that we can probably learn from the past few and get better for next year. Happy to share more detailed re-caps of the conversations we had, but just was in the airport and wanted to write this down while it was fresh.

mcollina commented 1 year ago

When do we want to do our next collaborator summit? It's time to start thinking.

Let me give a few options:

  1. CityJS London, 5th of April 2024
  2. JSDay (Verona, Italy), 25-26th of September 2024
  3. JSNation (Amsterdam), 13th of June 2024
  4. JSConf Ireland, 25th and 26th September 2024

At this time, NodeConf.eu 2024 is unconfirmed, or maybe another NodeConf will be brought back to life by @mikeal in 2024.x

I couldn't find many events in North America, so if somebody has some options there, please include them (feel free to edit).

ljharb commented 1 year ago
wesleytodd commented 1 year ago

After a few of the recent CPC and OpenJS meetings we were discussing if the @nodejs/next-10 group should work on a more formal "what the project would like to see from the foundation" sort of document. I personally feel like how we schedule/host the collab summit's and the associated budget would be a key thing to put a bit more formality behind. As I have not been involved in any planning like that in the past, I would love to hear from folks if y'all think this is a good idea and if it makes sense for the Next 10 group to drive.

When do we want to do our next collaborator summit?

I like this list of events, and especially like that we focus on existing and related conference events. I think the thing we have learned from the recent ones is that the Linux Foundation events are not great for our audience. I personally think that JS/Node.js specific events are the best (as opposed to more OSS focused ones).

bnb commented 1 year ago

I personally would prefer a Node.js collaboration summit co-located with a Node.js conference, and my impression is that I am not alone in this.

+1 to this. It genuinely felt like we were able to scrape together most of the people who have been there for nearly 100% of the Summits up until this point, but a much smaller extended community crowd. Maybe this was just my... unique situation... but it felt like we got less done and were less focused in our direction on the things we did get done. Not that this is anyone's fault, just asserting how it felt to me.

From my past experience, if X Node.js collaborators are going to a conference already, chances are >90% of them would also show up at the co-located Node.js collaboration summit (as long as it's not on short notice, of course).

+1.

Ask for a full track of Node.js content branded as its own mini-conference for Open Source Summit to get enough content/focus to pull people mostly interested in Node.js content and achieve a similar synergy that is in place for NodeConf.eu. In it's present form there just is not enough Node.js content in OpenJS World to meet that requirement. Several people have mentioned that to me and I personally agree.

I'd +1 what those several people have said.

Let me give a few options:

IMO we shouldn't colocate with events run by companies that are explicitly set up to run events, which seems to happen more in Europe than it does in NA. There are multiple reasons that I say this - the most notable one is that we end up picking a "winner" event company for a region, which doesn't seem fair given how we generally try to go pretty far out of our way to avoid picking corporate winners in other ways. Other reasons I'd prefer not to write down publicly, but am happy to share privately.

Another community-run EU option might be NordicJS or JSHeroes.

Open Source Summit in Seattle WA Github Universe in SF (usually early November)

@ljharb I think the explicit goal of this issue is discussing whether or not Open Source Summit works for us, and the general consensus is that it seemingly doesn't. Also as I learned this year, Universe has the potential to collide with NodeConf EU which will be prohibitively hard to hit both if we're still trying NA/EU (which I think we should).

ljharb commented 1 year ago

@bnb oh sure, that's fair, i was just listing events in NA since https://github.com/nodejs/admin/issues/814#issuecomment-1793675231 said they couldn't find any.

Since 2023 Universe is this week, I assume they'll pick the 2024 date after the event; I'll mention to a few people that it'd be best to avoid conflicting with NodeConf EU.

joyeecheung commented 1 year ago

Don we plan to have two collaboration summits next year as before? If so I think having one in H1 and one in H2 would be ideal. Better if they are on different continents (given the distribution of collaborators, the most economical solution might still be Europe + North America)

RafaelGSS commented 1 year ago

While I believe this might be quite difficult, I think we should also consider countries where getting a VISA (even as a tourist) isn't that hard. In my case, I can't go to NA (tried to OSSummit Canada), at least for now.

bnb commented 1 year ago

@RafaelGSS heh, that's very interesting feedback - I remember that we used to do Vancouver for Node.js Interactive specifically because it was easier than the US to get a Visa 🙃

joyeecheung commented 1 year ago

The visa issue might be relative to the home country, for example U.S. and Canada can be easier for a Chinese national in that they issue multi-year multi-entry visas by default but Schengen visas are often single-entry or require more financial support. It also varies a bit depending on diplomatic relationship development (for example the Canada/India visa tensions)

mcollina commented 1 year ago

Some updates. I spoke with the CityJS organizers, and they would be on board in giving us a small track/half track at the main event on the 5th of April. We also have a friendly company possibly hosting us before or after the event at their office. This seems to be possible.

Should we move this forward @nodejs/tsc?

wesleytodd commented 1 year ago

Just to make sure, that is this event? https://london.cityjsconf.org/

mcollina commented 1 year ago

yes

joyeecheung commented 1 year ago

We should also decide if we want to do it for 1 or 2 days

ovflowd commented 1 year ago

Just a question, since I was organising the last 2 events, should I still be at the organisation of our Collab Summit, or is this now delegated to the TSC? I loved organising those two summits and would to keep doing that ;)

mcollina commented 1 year ago

There is so much need of help/work in those that your help is welcomed (I would say necessary). The only part that I think should be the responsibility of the Node.js TSC is agreeing that a date/location works for enough of us to make sense to meet up.

ovflowd commented 1 year ago

The only part that I think should be the responsibility of the Node.js TSC is agreeing that a date/location works for enough of us to make sense to meet up.

That definitely makes sense :)

GeoffreyBooth commented 1 year ago

I'm not sure if I can make it to Europe, so having options in North America would help.

BenDavisson commented 10 months ago

Has there been a decision made for OpenJS World 2024?

I attended Open Source Summit last year and enjoyed the conference. The reason I attended was to go to OpenJS World talks. I tried looking for conference information this year, which lead me to this thread. I am curious on where/if there will be an OpenJS event this year.

Thanks!

joyeecheung commented 10 months ago

This thread is for the Node.js collaboration summit (a small meetup/unconference for Node.js contributors). It may be co-located with another OpenJS World if that happens again this year, but it's essentially a different event.

wesleytodd commented 10 months ago

Hey @BenDavisson, I believe most of that planning is discussed between foundation board and projects here. I don't see an issue in there about it though, so might be the best way is to ask in the slack which you can join from here: https://openjsf.org/collaboration

And while @joyeecheung is right that this is planning for the Node.js Collab Summit they have often been co-located and the collab summit is open for anyone who is interested in keeping up on the project even if you are not a contributor (yet 😀).

joyeecheung commented 10 months ago

Hi everyone, and sorry for the late notice. We are at a point where we can confirm that we have a host that can provide a room for 30-35 people on April 3-4 in London for a collaboration summit. Unfortunately due to coordination overhead we are only a bit more than 2 months away from the dates now. So the plan is to run an attendance poll for this summit, and estimate the turnout.

This is NOT a registration poll, only an interest survey to help us decide if we should move forward with the current plan. If the turnout estimated using this form is not enough to reach critical mass, we may cancel this edition, or move it to a later date (when there's another JS conference in London/UK, for example). So if you plan to attend this one, it's important that you could fill this form ASAP (closes on 31 Jan).

Here is the link to the poll - you only need to fill it if you are interested in attending. After you sent the response you should receive an email which allows you to edit your response if you want to.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdXYvxc13Pral6gdyNVx9AMdv_SIVWXlFtVqVCNJqsU66E12g/viewform

mcollina commented 9 months ago

The Collab summit for the 3-4 of April is confirmed! cc @ovflowd :).

ovflowd commented 9 months ago

Super awesome! Let's make this happen.

Ill coordinate with @joyeecheung regarding organisation details, and Ill proceed with also booking a flight for myself.

mhdawson commented 9 months ago

@nodejs/tsc there is a limited budget. There have been a few applications for the travel fund but the CPC would like to get a fuller picture before approving requests. The review is planned for Feb 27th, if you don't get your request in by that date, request may be considered after that but there may no longer be any budget available.

sheplu commented 9 months ago

I may have missed it in all the message, but do we have a page to register / book a ticket for the collaborator summit ?

joyeecheung commented 9 months ago

The registration is still being worked out by the foundation & the host, but it's more of a formality.

joyeecheung commented 9 months ago

Hi all,

We are happy to announce that the registration link is now ready. Please sign up using this link: https://go.bloomberg.com/attend/invite/join-bloomberg-and-the-openjs-foundation-for-the-node-js-collaborator-summit/

The registration information is going to be used for security and catering preparation, which is provided by our gracious host Bloomberg, so be cautious about sharing it to people who are not contributors or who are not likely to attend. You only need to sign up if you plan to attend in person.

  1. The location is Bloomberg London, 3 Queen Victoria Street. The building is right next to/on top of the the Bank underground station's entrace on the Walbrook street.
  2. For security reasons, you will be asked to show an ID and take a photo at the reception before going into the office building. The information is limited to the host's security system and won't be shared externally. To make the check-in process easier, please use the name on your ID when filling the registration form. If you feel uncomfortable about sharing your legal name via the form, please let me know and we can arrange something at the reception.
  3. We plan to have a camera capturing the room for the Zoom call. According to local regulations, if you appear on camera we may need to collect your consent for appearing on camera and being recorded. We won't be able to provide an all-masked environment, so it's not mandatory to wear a mask, but it's also totally fine if you want to wear one during the event.
  4. We plan to improve hybrid attendance this time. The host will provide A/V setup for us and we plan to bring backup equipment as well. There will be one (or more) microphone and people in the room who wish to speak during the sessions should raise their hands first and wait for their turn, so that remote participants can join the queue virtually and we can have a productive hybrid discussion.

If you have other questions, join the #collabosummit slack channel on the OpenJS slack or post here :)

wesleytodd commented 9 months ago

Are we able to remove the requirement on some of these fields? I am not sure why we ask for a phone number, and while I am comfortable giving mine I feel like that is not something we have asked for in the past so it feels weird.

EDIT: I just noticed this is from bloomberg. So I put in fake information because I am for sure not alright with providing this information to them.

ruyadorno commented 8 months ago

Now that we're all set for the Collaborator Summit happening in London next week, I'd like to start the conversation on the next Collaborator Summit for the second half of the year and I'd like for us to consider hosting it in Medellin, Colombia at the end of October.

That way we could attach ourselves to the CityJS Medellín conference (happening October 25-26 2024).

mcollina commented 8 months ago

@ruyadorno is there a company that can host us?

edsadr commented 8 months ago

hey everybody,

As the lead organizer of CityJS Medellin, I can commit to organizing and hosting this summit, We have local government support, which provides the venue for the conference and also the summit, we can even get extra support from NodeSource in case it is needed.

Also, we can help get special deals for a couple of hotels for people attending, we are currently negotiating this for our speakers so we can include that in the deal with them.