U14 cows etc

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Test it…

Today: 0D2 curved horns 0D5 a bit longer neck, shorter crown, hung ankh, added a few extrema, removed points sitting nearby, little-meaning curves to straights

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 0FD copied from 0D2, but 0FD’s eye, other horns, other belly (wanted exaggerated udder but stopped on 0D6-like), turned little-meaning curves to straights, increased left hangout. Are horns long enough, or make even longer?

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 0FE: changed horns, increased both hangouts, did small optimizations around horns by hand

[Mercury13]

@simoncozens, while our reviewer is out here, I want to ask you a small question: how are you going to implement hatches for damaged hieroglyphs? Draw more than 10 sets of hatches for different widths? (This isn’t needed for my Unicodia, it heavily relies on various fix-ups, but working font is always cool.) UPD. Ooh, write rules in WebAssembly :) Did not hear about this technology. Let’s wait?

[dwerning]

@Mercury13

• 0d2, 0fd, 0fe: much better; however, ideally, have the hornes even more curved to the outside as in 10b.
• 0fd: I wouldn't mind having a longer udder hanging a litte further down -- just to have this more clear.
• 05d: fine now.

[dwerning]

@simoncozens, while our reviewer is out here, I want to ask you a small question: how are you going to implement hatches for damaged hieroglyphs? Draw more than 10 sets of hatches for different widths? ...

I don't know about the technicalities. However @xadxura does.

Just one comment: you have to differentiate between the atomic hashing chars and the hashing overlay controls. The former is just normal hieroglyphic chars (U+13443-6), the latter is more difficult to implement (since overlays; U+13447-55).

Having at least the 'normal' chars

• U+13441/2 (2D blanks)
• U+13443/4 (2D atomic shading signs)

in Noto would be great (https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2021/21248-egyptian-controls.pdf).

[Mercury13]

@dwerning, Nice to see you again! So make horns more curved, okay. I don’t understand what to do with udder. Blanks are blanks, I understand. Shading signs are slanted hatches, aren’t they? And is there a difference between fully-lost hieroglyph and severely damaged? (sorry, writing from work computer, start in the night, as usually)

[dwerning]

Shading signs are slanted hatches, aren’t they?

yes, 45° like in

The size of the blanks are as follows:

• 13441: same size as 13443, but completely blank of course
• 13442: same size as 13444 (i.e. a quarter of a quadrat), but completely blank of course.

Cf. the grey areas is -- but again, not grey but just empty/blank:

And is there a difference between fully-lost hieroglyph and severely damaged?

Yes, the atomic hashings above makr areas of complete destruction. Damaged hieroglyphs are marked by hashing overlay, i.e., the more complicated control chars above (U+13447-...).

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Is hashing the same for fully-lost and damaged hieros?

[Mercury13]

@dwerning What to do with udder?

[dwerning]

@dwerning What to do with udder?

I suggest ====>

[Mercury13]

But you HAVE exaggerated the udder.

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Made just 0D2, is OK?

[dwerning]

But you HAVE exaggerated the udder.

Excuse me, I meant to say "I would NOT mind having a longer udder..."

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Is 0D2 OK? If OK, I’ll quickly fix the rest.

[dwerning]

@dwerning Is 0D2 OK? If OK, I’ll quickly fix the rest.

Yes, great.

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Sorry for being away, I was a bit sick. Even tonight I barely worked. 0FD changed horns, enlarged udder just a bit (four nipples are too many for this detail level), reimported form scratch 0FE changed horns, reimported from scratch 108 changed horns, changed width. Identified stroke 18u rather than 19, let it be 0FB Is this baboon OK? Ape species, tail

[Mercury13]

@dwerning We left for a while. I was a bit sick, take at least 163. Changed posture, grafted 164’s head feathers.

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Also 25F, inanimate objects start.

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Cannot fall asleep, simple inanimate hieros start. Also 267 and 26A.

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Accidentally noticed 2B1 — should I remake it like 2B4?

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 267 removed prongs, narrower glyph. 26A four rightmost snakes now point to the right. Moved 3 leftmost snakes 4 units to the left, and 4 rightmost 4 units to the right.

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 297: deleted a couple circles, the rest are more chaotic 29E: is it good? Added papyrus on the stern

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 29F thing on the stern

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 2B4 rectangular things — right?

[dwerning]

• 0FD: nice.
• 0FE: nice.
• 108: ok, I guess (Gardiner was not sure which animal this is and says it substitutes for the older form 109 in the New Kingdom, which looks more like a bubalis, cf. 103; however, also Gardiner has the a shape which looks like a cow; so, best we can decide now).
• 0FB: fine, now clealy a barboon. Use for 0FC too, plesae.
• 163: nice.
• 25F: fine now.
• 267: fine now.
• 26A: fine now.
• 2B1/2B4: please leave both as they are (these are the shape as defined in the upcoming version; 2B4 is dubious, but that's the way it is).
• 297: nice.
• 29E: please have both ends of the ship exactly like in 29F,i.e. remove the elaborate ending on the one side: 29E is a mirrored version of 29F but with additional rudder.

Thank you, again, for your work on this.

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 2B4: revert to round? leave square? 29F: OK? 29E: turn papyrus to simpler stern? 0FB: tail shape OK?

[dwerning]

• 2B4: leave square?
• 29F: fine
• 29E: yes, turn papyrus to simpler stern. As in 29F but mirrored.
• 0FB: tail? Honestly, I don't really know. But cf. Both don't have a loop. BTW: The first of the wto has marked the red part on the monkey's ass (- it's not a loop). A nice thing about the second example above is that the 'coat' around the shoulders is cleary visible. Cf. also: https://www.alamy.de/alten-agyptischen-gott-thot-als-pavian-aani-der-gott-des-gleichgewichts-und-der-vermittelnde-macht-zwischen-gut-und-bose-illustration-aus-dem-buch-pantheon-egyptien-von-leon-jean-joseph-dubois-1824-dargestellt-von-der-new-york-public-library-image261112217.html
• 0FC: same monkey as in 0FB

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Well, baboon has a nice “coat”, and IDK how ho convey it. I’ll try. I’ll greatly reduce tail loop. 2B4 — I turned round breads to rectangular receptacles, leave them?

[dwerning]

• 2B4: yes this way:

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 0FB smaller tail loop, made coat 29E 29F: simpler and exactly identical stern figure. To make 29E, I flipped 29F and grafted existing rudder oar 2B4: did nothing. See a shot from FontForge → considering OK (I use FontForge too)

Have a hard day tomorrow → go to bed

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 2C1 remade top of spear from scratch, identified stroke 20u, let it be

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 31F triangle to line

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 379 Remade from scratch, is position normal?

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 3F3 narrower 417 rectangular 420 removed line 42B filled semicircle The ball is on your side now; when you confirm baboon and turned U, I’ll remake the rest

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Are you alive?

[dwerning]

Having come back from a field trip to Egypt, here is my review:

• 0FC: please insert same barboon as in 0FB
• 29E, 29F: as requested; however, I am unsure about the shapes; Gardiner is not very clear in this respect; I need to recheck with colleagues about the stern and the orientation of 29F: there is some confusion about it
• 2B4: as supposed to be
• 0FB: as requested
• 2C1: nice
• 31F: could you move both strokes at the bottom a little more to the bottom (more like Gardiner had it)
• 379: fine
• 37B: supposed to be mirrored form of now new 379
• 37A: supposed to have same height as 379/B (other that 378, which is fine!)
• 3F3: as requested
• 417: as requested
• 420: correct now
• 42B: as requested

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Field trip to Egypt? Was it dangerous? Egypt hasn’t always been really safe outside tourist sites, and nearby war could change something.

[dwerning]

As to the shapes of the sacred ship of Ra (29E, 29F)

• a perfect shape for the bow/rear would be similar to the shape of U+13333/4
• a perfect shape for the stern/front would be an uncurved, rather vertical shape. Cf. https://www.alamy.com/drawing-on-stone-of-the-pharaoh-sailing-on-his-ship-made-in-black-ink-with-red-hieroglyphs-image335881066.html?imageid=31A5878E-C944-42DF-A6C9-A5D44BA387C2&p=255142&pn=1&searchId=6a05fe88b4b84b331cb47a5a969cdef6&searchtype=9 https://www.alamy.com/khufu-cheops-ship-intact-full-size-vessel-type-known-as-a-solar-barge-a-ritual-vessel-to-carry-the-resurrected-king-with-the-sun-god-ra-across-the-heavens-4th-dynasty-old-kingdom-giza-pyramid-complex-c-2500-bc-giza-solar-boat-museum-egypt-image343653965.html?imageid=A18676F9-D12B-4D28-B57E-5B27E90C0609&p=83158&pn=1&searchId=fc52f017b49a41529e897350618adee3&searchtype=0 https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-he-three-boats-top-two-are-funeral-boats-bottom-is-boat-of-ra-pictured-31008558.html?imageid=306D21B3-45D3-4F08-A41D-40DEFBA15750&p=32409&pn=1&searchId=fc52f017b49a41529e897350618adee3&searchtype=0

Cf. Sign TSL_1_5011 http://thotsignlist.org/mysign?id=5011, in: Thot Sign List, ed. by Université de Liège and BBAW, Berlin; notably

So

Initial Unicode shapes in v5.1:

BTW: against the photo evidence abobe, please leave the seat as it is. The shape of the seat as evidenced in the photos will be added as U+1402B with the next addition of glyphs. The shapes of ships in hieroglyphs is admittedly still very confusing, badly researched.

[Mercury13]

I’ve seen a simple dome-shaped cockpit somewhere, so I didn’t even think to change it. I’ll try tonight.

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Is the chair in place of cockpit King’s or god’s throne?

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 29E 9F redrew both bow and stern figures, go to bed. Thank you.

[dwerning]

Is the chair in place of cockpit King’s or god’s throne?

In Gardiner/Unicode v5.2 it seems to be a shrine like 𓉬 or rather, higher, 𓁱.

Unfortunately, Hieroglyphica/Unicode v9ff shapes have the shrine symmetric.

However, the evidence that Thot Sign List has on the divine ship is mostly with what I understand as a seat or throne with a shape similar to 𓊩. This shape will be added wit Unicode v16 (codepoint not fixed yet):

Ideally, for now, you would make the shrine line Gardiner had it, i.e., non-symmetric, the higher part near the front/stern.

[Mercury13]

@dwerning Excuse me, bow is front, and stern is rear. I checked dictionary once again. Higher part near the bow/front, I presume, by the look of 13071?

[dwerning]

Sorry, yes, higher part of the shrine near the front, like here:

(Confusing, since the higher part of the throne/seat variant is near the back.

[Mercury13]

I thought it’s a cockpit. And there’s a shrine inside that cockpit? :)

[dwerning]

I thought it’s a cockpit. And there’s a shrine inside that cockpit? :)

In the night, the sun god is in a shrine-shaped "cockpit", see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_barque#/media/File:Book_of_Gates_Barque_of_Ra_cropped.jpg. I figure that this is what Gardiner aimed at in his shape. However, I do not have or remember an image of the sun boat at daytime with any kind of seat/shrine/or else.

Some examples with this shrine-shaped "cockpits" may be found here (Tab Tokens): Sign TSL_1_5010 http://thotsignlist.org/mysign?id=5010, in: Thot Sign List <http://thotsignlist.org>, edited by Université de Liège and Berlin-Brandenburgische Akademie der Wissenschaften.

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 29E 9F redrew cockpits, reimported from scratch 379…37B redrew cartouches from scratch, maintaining dimensions approved by you 42F new glyph Need just 0FC ape, but that’s lots of work

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 0FC grafted new baboon

[Mercury13]

@dwerning 31F moved to bottom via FontForge, found suboptimal node Normal hieros done, let’s add format control pictures with another PR :)

[Mercury13]

Sorry for force-push, related to my job and your CLA. It was marked with my work email somehow, and I didn’t want sign CLA once again. Now personal email.