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notofonts / egyptian-hieroglyphs

Noto Egyptian Hieroglyphs
SIL Open Font License 1.1
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Redraw Egyptian hieroglyphs according to 2021 changes #3

Closed Mercury13 closed 9 months ago

Mercury13 commented 2 years ago

Title

Unicode 14 redrew several Egyptian hieroglyphs, and you should check them

Font

NotoSansEgyptianHieroglyphs-Regular.otf

Where the font came from, and when

Site: this repo Date: 2021-12-18

Font Version

2.000

OS name and version

All OS

Application name and version

All apps

Issue

2009 images were correct but poor. 2016 images were redrawn by professional designer, but historically worse. 2021 images were corrected by Egyptologists

Character data

1300A bend knee more 13017 not so bent man 13032 remove beard 13034 remove beard 13035 OK (enlarged beard) 13037 OK (enlarged beard) 13038 shorter beard 1303A change hairstyle, shorten beard 1303B shorten beard 1303C shorten beard 1303D so-so (you may shorten beard) 1303E so-so (you may enlarge beard) 1304E change hand position 1304F OK (changed hands position) 13055 seemingly OK (I don’t see what’s the trouble) 13057 remove beard, turn man to woman 13068 add beard 1309A shovel with bread, not skewer with meat 130D2 horns should point outwards 130D5 ankh on cow’s neck 130F6 I don’t see the point, probably something else on the neck instead of ankh 130FE horns should point outwards 13192 OK (snake should have ears) 1325F rectangle on lower-right 13267 no teeth on the right 1326A snakes should point to different sides, three to the left and four to the right 13281 borders of the comb should reach the top 13297 probably lotus? seeds should be placed chaotically 1329E papyrus on boat’s stern 132B4 rectangular receptacles, not round breads 132C1 another shape of horizontal thing 132E6 OK (something else is hanging, and you are right) 13304 OK (another shape of tool) 1331F lower prong should not be triangular 13378 OK (all fonts did right despite 2016 drawing) 13379, 7A, 7B higher 1337D seemingly OK 1337E OK 133F3 shorter 133FA..403 OK? reference images are hollow now, but simple stick probably isn’t a mistake. 1340D OK (horizontal hatch, not diagonal) 13417 cylindrical tool, not sausage-like 1342B OK (all fonts did right)

Mercury13 commented 2 years ago

Accidentally found some new problems: horns inwards/outwards, even on hieros that were not marked as new 130FD horns outwards 13108 same

Mercury13 commented 2 years ago

1329F: something on boat’s stern?

Mercury13 commented 2 years ago

Checked all hieroglyphs. 13008 OK? In reference image sits higher, but probably valid 13015 should stretch the arm further? 13039 remove beard! 13075 Add tits, both reference images show some signs of woman 130FB,FC other species of ape, IDK if mistake 13163 other posture of bird, IDK if mistake 13420 make rectangles cover each other

dwerning commented 2 years ago

Please find an overview of signs to be corrected in the PDF here: https://osf.io/9haqz

1300A Turn upper hand, palm outwards Both hands should be fists, cf. v5.2 13015 Lower upper arm a little 13017 Not bend that low 1302D Make beard longer, curved at the end 13032 Remove beard 13033 Remove uraeus at the front of the crown 13034 Remove beard 13038 Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 13039 Remove beard 1303A Make beard shorter, pointed end 1303B Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 1303C Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 1303D Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 1303E Make beard longer, curved at the end 1303F Make beard longer, curved at the end 13040 Make beard longer, curved at the end 1304E Turn upper hand, palm outwards 13057 (Queen erroneously as king in v9); (a) Remove beard; (b) Redesign hair and breast as in U+13050 𓁐 13068 (a) Knees like in U+13000 𓀀; (b) Redesign headdress; (c) Long bread, curved at the end 13075 (a) Remove beard; (b) correct crown 1309A Substitute mace for sword(?) (Good shape, v15 again like v9) 130D2 Horns curved, pointing outwards 130D5 Add 𓋹 around the neck 130FB Redesign according to shape in v5.2 130FC Redesign ape according U+130FB 130FD (Female cow) Redesing horn, longer/wirder than in U+130D2; remove penis under belly, add udder 130FE Horns mor like in (revides) U+130D2 13108 Redesign according to U+130FE 13163 Redesign shape 1325F Move rectangular compartment to the right 13267 Remove ticks at the right 1326A Mirror four rightmost uraei 13281 Leave as it is (insignificant) 13297 Sand pattern like in v5.2 1329E Redesign rear part of ship 1329F Redesign stern 132B4 Rectangual things on the table 132C1 Substitute 𓈋 by simple platform 1331F Substitute triagle in the lower part by stroke 13378 (Good shape; not to be confused with the shape/height in U+1317A) 13379 Make full height; not like in U+13378 1337A Make full height; not like in U+13378 1337B Make full height; not like in U+13378 133D4 (Good shape; cf. U+133F3 below) 133F3 Make recognizably less wide than U+133D4 13417 Rectangular middle 13420 Delete extra line 1342B Fill knob (not to be confused with U+133DD)

[Update of list and PDF after review of @Mercury13 's comments]

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

Does it compile? I can start fixing ≈2 hieros a week, but first ensure that it compiles, we did not compile for a year.

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

And do we have better sources than .glif? For example, .svg?

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

I won’t touch 1300A, as there are controversies here whether it should be a fist or palm to other side.

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

Is it OK? u13015_NotoSansEgyptianHieroglyphs-Regular

dwerning commented 1 year ago

I won’t touch 1300A, as there are controversies here whether it should be a fist or palm to other side.

It should be alms as best visible in the "JSesh font" example. Its a man 'drumming' on his chest alternately with his left and right fist.

dwerning commented 1 year ago

And do we have better sources than .glif? For example, .svg?

There are SVGs in the JSesh package (https://github.com/rosmord/jsesh/tree/master/jseshGlyphs/src/main/resources/jseshGlyphs; in addition, extented and individual sets: https://jsesh.qenherkhopeshef.org/glyphshttps://jsesh.qenherkhopeshef.org/glyphs). However, the glyphs there have a style very different from the Glyph/WinGlyph/Hieroglyphica style that the Unicode set is based on. Cf., e.g., the design of the arms. Therefore, expecially for humans/gods, they are not always good models.

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

@dwerning Why I’m asking? All fonts have zero-width outlines → lines containing width and centerline are lost. If we don’t have → I see, they are done rather sloppily, I won’t introduce a great mess. I’ve found some thesis about what is hnw; if fists then fists.

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

@dwerning At least I need to check how fists are drawn in other fonts and glyphs.

dwerning commented 1 year ago

Is it OK?

Looks good to me. Thank you. Feel free to contact me directly by email for quick individual questions or evaluation purposes.

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

@dwerning I’ll make three or four hieros, and start a pilot PR. I don’t even know whether this font compiles! My PR for Old Turkic is hanging for several months!

dwerning commented 1 year ago

I won’t touch 1300A, as there are controversies here whether it should be a fist or palm to other side. At least I need to check how fists are drawn in other fonts and glyphs. It should be alms as best visible in the "JSesh font" example. Its a man 'drumming' on his chest alternately with his left and right fist.

See here: https://thebanmappingproject.com/images/10482jpg

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

About better sources — I mean, *.glif weren’t intended for direct editing. They were made from SVGs.

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

image 00A moved feet, but did not change to fists for now. It’ll be a bit hard, but I’ll do. That’s why I posted a screen rather than SVG.

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

@dwerning, should 017 be slightly edited 018 (like in U14, NewGardiner), or bend it a little bit lower (like in Segoe)?

dwerning commented 1 year ago

@dwerning, should 017 be slightly edited 018 (like in U14, NewGardiner), or bend it a little bit lower (like in Segoe)?

u13017 (bend old man) should be bend like in Segoe (but not so much as in Unicode v9 (= Hieroglyphica)), clearly distinguishable from u13018 (straight standing noble man).

dwerning commented 1 year ago

Review

Thank you for your work on this!

simoncozens commented 1 year ago

Thanks to @Mercury13 for design and @dwerning for review. I'd be very happy to merge the PR once the two/three remaining issues are addressed.

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

@simoncozens Possibly did all men and gods; I’ll get a review, and you merge and check for compilation. And I’ll have a little rest.

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

Part one, men and gods, probably done.

simoncozens commented 1 year ago

Brilliant, I'm going to merge it. Thank you so much.

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

@dwerning Part one accepted today, I’ll check technical correctness. (UPD: correct) Concerning 130FB, 0FC: 1) does tail position matter? 2) Does knot shape matter? And could you find some original images of hamadryas? Concerning cows/bulls: what about horns? When should they point inside and when outside?

dwerning commented 1 year ago

Concerning 130FB, 0FC: 1) does tail position matter? 2) Does knot shape matter? And could you find some original images of hamadryas? Concerning cows/bulls: what about horns? When should they point inside and when outside?

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

@dwerning Is 0F7 (E32) baboon of monkey? Should I change it?

Mercury13 commented 1 year ago

@dwerning I found one shortcoming in 0F9/0FA (E34(a), hare/low hare). Low hare is just a shrunken hare. Should I improve them somehow?

dwerning commented 1 year ago

Is 0F7 (E32) baboon of monkey? Should I change it?

0F7/8 should stay the way it is. 0FB/C is special since it is also used for god Thot in which case it must be the very specific form of the baboon as in v9-v15.

dwerning commented 1 year ago

I found one shortcoming in 0F9/0FA (E34(a), hare/low hare). Low hare is just a shrunken hare. Should I improve them somehow?

This was a shortcoming/mistake/misunderstanding in the proposal for v5.2. (Same for 168/9, 16A/B, 39F/A0, 3B1/2.) The shrunken variants are going to be set to a kind of usage blacklist with v16. So just leave them as they are.

Mercury13 commented 10 months ago

Checking what is already done ✅=merged, 🟡=checked, 🔴=unchecked, ❎=OK somehow ❔=not yet done ➰=popped out amid work

✅ 1300A Turn upper hand, palm outwards Both hands should be fists, cf. v5.2 ✅ 13015 Lower upper arm a little ✅ 13017 Not bend that low ✅ 1302D Make beard longer, curved at the end ✅➰ 1302E ✅ 13032 Remove beard ✅ 13033 Remove uraeus at the front of the crown ✅ 13034 Remove beard ✅➰ 13035, 036, 037 ✅ 13038 Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 ✅ 13039 Remove beard ✅ 1303A Make beard shorter, pointed end ✅ 1303B Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 ✅ 1303C Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 ✅ 1303D Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 ✅ 1303E Make beard longer, curved at the end ✅ 1303F Make beard longer, curved at the end ✅ 13040 Make beard longer, curved at the end ✅ 1304E Turn upper hand, palm outwards ✅ 13057 (Queen erroneously as king in v9); (a) Remove beard; (b) Redesign hair and breast as in U+13050 𓁐 ✅➰ 1305A 064 ✅ 13068 (a) Knees like in U+13000 𓀀; (b) Redesign headdress; (c) Long bread, curved at the end ✅➰ 13069…06D, 06F ✅ 13075 (a) Remove beard; (b) correct crown ✅➰ 13076 ❎ 1309A Substitute mace for sword(?) (Good shape, v15 again like v9) 🟡 130D2 Horns curved, pointing outwards 🟡 130D5 Add 𓋹 around the neck 🔴 130FB Redesign according to shape in v5.2 ❔ 130FC Redesign ape according U+130FB 🟡 130FD (Female cow) Redesing horn, longer/wirder than in U+130D2; remove penis under belly, add udder 🟡 130FE Horns mor like in (revides) U+130D2 🟡 13108 Redesign according to U+130FE 🟡 13163 Redesign shape ✅➰ 1317D 🟡 1325F Move rectangular compartment to the right 🟡 13267 Remove ticks at the right 🟡 1326A Mirror four rightmost uraei ❎ 13281 Leave as it is (insignificant) 🟡 13297 Sand pattern like in v5.2 🔴 1329E Redesign rear part of ship 🔴 1329F Redesign stern 🟡 132B4 Rectangual things on the table 🔴 132C1 Substitute 𓈋 by simple platform 🔴 1331F Substitute triagle in the lower part by stroke ❎ 13378 (Good shape; not to be confused with the shape/height in U+1317A) 🔴 13379 Make full height; not like in U+13378 ❔ 1337A Make full height; not like in U+13378 ❔ 1337B Make full height; not like in U+13378 ❎ 133D4 (Good shape; cf. U+133F3 below) 🔴 133F3 Make recognizably less wide than U+133D4 🔴 13417 Rectangular middle 🔴 13420 Delete extra line 🔴 1342B Fill knob (not to be confused with U+133DD)

U15: ❔ 1342F other cartouche ❔ 13441 hiero space wide ❔ 13442 hiero space narrow ❔ 13443 hash big ❔ 13444 hash small ❔ 13445 hash tall ❔ 13446 hash wide And maybe draw some images for formats until we fully support them.

Mercury13 commented 9 months ago

@simoncozens While our reviewer is out here (seriously ill), maybe I’ll make a side-branch to merge what’s has been reviewed?

simoncozens commented 9 months ago

I'm happy to merge a partial PR, but it looks like he's back in action!

Mercury13 commented 9 months ago

I was really glad, and even answered to Daniel, but could not redraw even boats.

Mercury13 commented 9 months ago

Status after Daniel’s review: (❌ bounced)

✅ 1300A Turn upper hand, palm outwards Both hands should be fists, cf. v5.2 ✅ 13015 Lower upper arm a little ✅ 13017 Not bend that low ✅ 1302D Make beard longer, curved at the end ✅➰ 1302E ✅ 13032 Remove beard ✅ 13033 Remove uraeus at the front of the crown ✅ 13034 Remove beard ✅➰ 13035, 036, 037 ✅ 13038 Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 ✅ 13039 Remove beard ✅ 1303A Make beard shorter, pointed end ✅ 1303B Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 ✅ 1303C Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 ✅ 1303D Make beard shorter, edged end, as in v14 ✅ 1303E Make beard longer, curved at the end ✅ 1303F Make beard longer, curved at the end ✅ 13040 Make beard longer, curved at the end ✅ 1304E Turn upper hand, palm outwards ✅ 13057 (Queen erroneously as king in v9); (a) Remove beard; (b) Redesign hair and breast as in U+13050 𓁐 ✅➰ 1305A 064 ✅ 13068 (a) Knees like in U+13000 𓀀; (b) Redesign headdress; (c) Long bread, curved at the end ✅➰ 13069…06D, 06F ✅ 13075 (a) Remove beard; (b) correct crown ✅➰ 13076 ❎ 1309A Substitute mace for sword(?) (Good shape, v15 again like v9) 🟡 130D2 Horns curved, pointing outwards 🟡 130D5 Add 𓋹 around the neck 🟡 130FB Redesign according to shape in v5.2 ❔ 130FC Redesign ape according U+130FB 🟡 130FD (Female cow) Redesing horn, longer/wirder than in U+130D2; remove penis under belly, add udder 🟡 130FE Horns mor like in (revides) U+130D2 🟡 13108 Redesign according to U+130FE 🟡 13163 Redesign shape ✅➰ 1317D 🟡 1325F Move rectangular compartment to the right 🟡 13267 Remove ticks at the right 🟡 1326A Mirror four rightmost uraei ❎ 13281 Leave as it is (insignificant) 🟡 13297 Sand pattern like in v5.2 ❌ 1329E Redesign rear part of ship ❌ 1329F Redesign stern 🟡 132B4 Rectangual things on the table 🟡 132C1 Substitute 𓈋 by simple platform ❌ 1331F Substitute triangle in the lower part by stroke ❎ 13378 (Good shape; not to be confused with the shape/height in U+1317A) 🟡❔ 13379 Make full height; not like in U+13378 (IDK whether it will work, but at least height OK) ❔ 1337A Make full height; not like in U+13378 ❔ 1337B Make full height; not like in U+13378 ❎ 133D4 (Good shape; cf. U+133F3 below) 🟡 133F3 Make recognizably less wide than U+133D4 🟡 13417 Rectangular middle 🟡 13420 Delete extra line 🟡 1342B Fill knob (not to be confused with U+133DD)

U15: ❔ 1342F other cartouche ❔ 13441 hiero space wide ❔ 13442 hiero space narrow ❔ 13443 hash big ❔ 13444 hash small ❔ 13445 hash tall ❔ 13446 hash wide

Mercury13 commented 9 months ago

I also need to retrieve some stats about hieros’ widths to make 443/44. Needs a little programming → cannot either.

Mercury13 commented 9 months ago

Again “probably-done” (+42F, the only actual hiero from U15’s innovations). If my work is approved, I check once again, you merge and close this issue.

Mercury13 commented 9 months ago

@simoncozens Closing this issue, everything mentioned here (except hashes and hiero spaces) is done?

dwerning commented 6 months ago

@simoncozens When, approximately, will the corrected version of Noto Sans Egyptian Hieroglyphs be officially online on https://fonts.google.com/noto/specimen/Noto+Sans+Egyptian+Hieroglyphs?noto.script=Egyp, or is there already another place from which one can download it?

simoncozens commented 6 months ago

For the first question, I'll put it on the list for the end of this quarter. I was hoping to create a WASM version supporting the layout formatting controls, but I think that's less likely to happen this quarter so I'll just release what we have.

For the second question, you can get development versions from https://notofonts.github.io/egyptian-hieroglyphs/