La ha-ha versus la-ha ha conjunct

[simoncozens]

As reported by John in #1, the word ਓਲ੍ਹ੍ਹਗੀ forms a conjunct "la ha-ha" whereas other fonts handle it as "la-ha ha". Is this OK? Do we want to change it?

[tiroj]

Note that subscript –ha in modern Punjabi is not performing the same role as in other Indic scripts: even though it is being triggered by a virama character it is not forming a conjunct; rather, it is a kind of tone marker.

Thinking this through, recently, I am inclined to think that Jelle may be right that this Noto behaviour is a better rendering for what will be, after all, a very rare situation.

[simoncozens]

Maybe let's not change it then unless there's significant user feedback.

[satnamsvirdi]

Regarding shared image, I'd say that it looks weird. It must create a half ha underneath la but if someone adds halant after that, it must retain the first half-ha and must not create any half form after that for same consonant.

Just ignore the space between letters. This would be ideal IMO. Your thoughts?

[tiroj]

Have we confirmed that this word, or ones involving this kind of sequence, actually exist? I have found ਓਲ੍ਹ੍ਹਗੀਆ — i.e. without the second halanta — in the Sikh scriptures and elsewhere, but not spelled as in this issue.

[satnamsvirdi]

Practically, as far as I know, you will never encounter this kind of word in Punjabi. In modern Punjabi, even the experts are trying to reduce the usage of half-forms.

I searched for ਓਲ੍ਹ੍ਹਗੀਆ in Google and found a result in GuruGranthDarpan.net for this word. But I noticed something weird there.

They are using half-ha but the shape of the glyph rendered on the screen by the font suggests that they want to use Udaat (U+0A51) there.

So technically, the right spelling would be ਓਲੑਗੀਆ, not ਓਲ੍ਹਗੀਆ. Here, usage of udaat is to indicate high-tone (uccha swar - ਉੱਚਾ ਸੁਰ) of the letter.

One result I found in here which can solve our problem. Seems like font developer used a hack to make typing of Udaat easier as there is no direct key on Windows to type udaat and yaksh. On Mac however, I discovered today that there's a key for Udaat/Yaksha but not is not widely popular among most of the Punjabi users.

Summarising, there is no word in Punjabi or Sikh scriptures which uses double half-ha as of now.

[tiroj]

Yes, it looks like some fonts are using a glyph level hack to display halanta+ha+halanta+ha as udaat. Oof! That’s a really bad idea.

[tiroj]

Have also found live examples of the similar hack to represent the yakash sign using halanta+ya+halanta+ya in ਮਿਥ੍ਯ੍ਯੰਤ (ਮਿਥੵੰਤ). These include https://www.gurugranthdarpan.net/1354.html but also other sites, indicating that these hacks may have proliferated among users dependent on the hack fonts.