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notofonts / noto-cjk

Noto CJK fonts
http://www.google.com/get/noto/help/cjk
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Can't register NotoSerifKR-Bold.otf #114

Closed boy2man closed 6 years ago

boy2man commented 6 years ago

When I try to register this font file to windows, system says that it is registered correctly but I cannot see "C:\Windows\Fonts" folder while all other NotoSerifKR-*.otf files are shown. If registering is tried again, system says that it's already registered and ask to replace it.

Seems like there's some problem on it's meta data. Because, when I double click on "otf" file in file explorer

  1. It's font name is displayed as "Noto Serif KR" instead of "Noto Serif KR Biold" while all others are doing correct.
  2. Sometimes meta information is just not displayed while other sample text below meta information is displayed correctly.
kenlunde commented 6 years ago

The Noto Serif CJK fonts are style-linked, in terms of the Regular and Bold weights, and I suspect that this is why the Bold weight is not showing up, although it has been installed properly. Please try using the fonts, by first selecting the Regular weight, then use the "Bold" style in an app that supports style-linking, such as MS Word.

boy2man commented 6 years ago

Thanks for your opinion. But problem is not the thing.

Actually "NotoSerifKR-Bold.otf" is not properly installed. It cannot be seen in folder or control pannel. So I can uninstall that font only when I use 3rd party font management application. It is not present in font list either in every application while all the others do. For reference, "NotoSansKR-Bold.otf" has no problem.

As summary, NotoSansKR-XXX 7 fonts are OK, and NotoSerifKR-XXX 6 out of 7 fonts are OK, but only "NotoSerifKR-Bold.otf" has problem.

And using bold "Style" is different with using bold "Font", because from "ExtraLight" to "Black", every font can be applied to "Bold Style".

Thanks again.

kenlunde commented 6 years ago

Windows is extraordinarily odd in how it treats the font files of style-linked fonts, so I am still sure that your issue is related to the fact the Regular weight is style-linked to the Bold weight. In apps that support style-linking, such as most Microsoft ones, the Bold weight does not appear in the font list, and the only way to access it is to first select the Regular weight, then click the Bold style button. In fact, it seems that Windows goes out of its way to make the Bold font hidden, which also explains what you described.

Please try using the fonts, particular the Bold one, in an app that does not use style-linking. The only such app that comes to mind is Adobe InDesign, because I am an Adobe employee. You can download and install a fully-functional trial version through Adobe Creative Cloud in case you cannot find other apps that do not support style-linking.

boy2man commented 6 years ago

I am totally agree with you for the fact that the Windows is extraordinarily odd, but this is not the case. I checked out in notepad2 and eclipse which use style-linking. As you said I can see "Bold" style in font style list with other 6 styles for both "NotoSerifKR" and "NotoSansKR". So I agree with the fact that it is registered to the system but there's still problem with it.

Yes, for the apps which use style-linking, there's no problem. I can select and use "Bold" font. But the other apps like "Excel" which displays all 7 styles as 7 different font, "Bold" font is just not there. For the "NotoSansKR", it's OK. You can see all 7 different font including NotoSansKR-Bold in the font list. Only "NotoSerifKR-Bold" has a trouble.

I guess it is because that font name property in meta information is wrong. If you double click "NotoSerifKR-Bold.otf" file and see the attribute windows you can find that "Noto Serif KR Bold" in windows title bar but font name is "Noto Serif KR" which is same as "NotoSerifKR-Regular.otf". All others ("Black", "SemiBold", "Medium", "Light", "ExtraLight") font have distinguishing name.

dougfelt commented 6 years ago

@boy2man, Ken knows exactly what is in the font name metadata for the Serif CJK fonts. It is not wrong, it is as designed, because this is how style linking works.

In programs that use style linking-- such as Excel-- you get the bold font by using the Regular font, selecting the text, and asking to make it bold. The bold font does not appear as a separately named font in font menus. However, such programs will use the actual bold font when you take the Regular font and 'make it bold', which improves the typographic quality of the result. Without style linking these programs will apply an algorithm that makes the font appear bolder, which looks worse. The downside is these programs often do not list the Bold font separately.

Style linking is achieved by setting the family name of the Regular and Bold weights of the font to be the same. The name data is intentionally designed this way in order to tell such programs to 'link' the Bold and Regular weights.

kenlunde commented 6 years ago

I should also clarify that the reason why the Noto Serif CJK and Noto Sans CJK fonts behave differently in this regard is because the Regular weights in the former are style-linked to the Bold weights, and the latterfonts are not style-linked at all (but will be as part of the Version 2.000 update). We received requested to style-link the Noto Sans CJK fonts, and because we are not planning any updates until Version 2.000, those need to wait. The Noto Serif CJK fonts were developed after we decided to field style-linked fonts, which is why it is supported.

I pointed one of my co-workers to this issue yesterday, and he anecdotally told me that this Windows-specific behavior of hiding fonts has been a thorn in his side for over 20 years.

boy2man commented 6 years ago

Thank you for both. Now I understand. I couldn't understand because 'Noto Sans XXX' font works differently.

marekjez86 commented 6 years ago

Thank you @kenlunde @dougfelt . Closing the issue.