Noto Serif CJK에 대하여

[gminky]

안녕하세요? Noto Serif CJK에 대한 문자(조합용 한글 자모) 추가를 제안하렵니다.

아시다싶이 북한에서는 1948년에 "조선어 신 철자법"을 제정되며 그 안에 새로 , , (자음-첫소리 및 끝소리), (모음-가운뎃소리)의 4가지 자모가 사용된 바 있습니다.

해당 자모들은 북한 사회에서 널리 사용되지는 못하였으나 북한의 논문(조선어 연구)나 문법서(조선어 문법)등에서 일정한 정도 사용됐습니다. 특히 "조선어 문법"은 북한의 국어문법 연구사를 알아볼 때 꼭 필요한 자료 중 하나일 것입니다. 이러한 자료들을 전산화하려면 해당한 자모를 입력할 수 있어야 한다고 생각을 합니다. 그래서 PUA든 Hangul Jamo Extended-B(이건 별도의 절차가 필요하겠으나)든 위 4개 자모들을 추가해 주시면 고맙게 생각합니다.

감사합니다.

en자료: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Korean_Orthography https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:DPRK_New_Korean_Orthography_(1948-1954) (참고) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Proposal_to_add_the_%E2%80%9C6_letters%E2%80%9D_(Hangul_Jamo).pdf

ko자료: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/조선어신철자법.pdf https://ko.wikisource.org/wiki/%EC%A1%B0%EC%84%A0%EC%96%B4_%EC%8B%A0_%EC%B2%A0%EC%9E%90%EB%B2%95 https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%A1%B0%EC%84%A0%EC%96%B4_%EC%8B%A0%EC%B2%A0%EC%9E%90%EB%B2%95

ja자료: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%9C%9D%E9%AE%AE%E8%AA%9E%E6%96%B0%E7%B6%B4%E5%AD%97%E6%B3%95 https://ja.wikisource.org/wiki/%E6%9C%9D%E9%AE%AE%E8%AA%9E%E6%96%B0%E7%B6%B4%E5%AD%97%E6%B3%95

[kenlunde]

Adding glyphs for four new (and obsolete) jamo would first require that a well-formed proposal be prepared and submitted to Unicode, and that proposal would need to be accepted for encoding in a future version of the standard.

Implementing these characters via PUA code points is a complete non-starter for this project.

@marekjez86 or @davelab6: This issue can be safely closed.

[gminky]

(by google translate) Hello? I would like to add a character for the Noto Serif CJK.

As you know, in North Korea, "New Korean Orthography" was enacted in 1948, and 4 new characters such as , , (as Initial or final consonants), (as Medial vowels) were used in it.

The characters were not used extensively in North Korean society, but they were used to some extent in North Korea 's thesis (in "Korean studies") and grammar book. Especially, "Korean grammar" is one of the essential materials for studying the Korean grammar researcher in North Korea. To computerize these materials, I think I need to be able to input the one character. So I would appreciate it if you could add the above 4 Jamo, either PUA or Hangul Jamo Extended-B (this will require a separate procedure).

Thank you.

[gminky]

@kenlunde 유니코드에 있어야 글꼴에 수록될수 있단 말씀이실까요?

[marekjez86]

@gminky : EN:

1. UNICODE needs to have it.
2. Today UNICODE doesn't have it.
3. When UNICODE has it, then NOTO will also have it.

: 1. UNICODE가 가지고 있어야합니다. 2. 오늘날 UNICODE에는 없습니다. 3. UNICODE가있을 때, NOTO는 그것을 가지고 있습니다.

[marekjez86]

@kenlunde : interesting. it's possible that this is the difference between North Korea ("New Korean Orthography" from 1948) and South Korea. Looks to me that nobody represented North Korean "New Korean Orthography" at Unicode.

[gminky]

@marekjez86 Thank you for your information!

[kenlunde]

On the Unicode side, seven new characters would be required. The three consonants in leading (L) form would be encoded at the end of the Hangul Jamo Extended-A block, from U+A97D through U+A97F (filling the block). The same three consonants in trailing (T) form would be encoded in the Hangul Jamo Extended-B block, from U+D7C7 through U+D7C9. The single vowel (V) would be encoded at the end of the Hangul Jamo Extended-B block, at U+D7FC.

On the font side, the number of additional glyphs that would be required to support combining jamo is 36: 18 for L, 3 for V, and 15 for T.

Still, a well-formed proposal would need to be submitted to Unicode. The bar would be relatively high for these characters, and plenty of evidence would need to be supplied. Links to Wikipedia articles are considered insufficient.

[gminky]

@kenlunde 알려주셔서 감사합니다.

(일단 이렇게 제출해봤습니다.)

[kenlunde]

@gminky Your proposal needs a lot of work before it should be submitted. I have also asked someone to vet it.

[gminky]

@kenlunde 네, 대단히 감사합니다.

[kenlunde]

@gminky In order to set your expectations, the likelihood of the seven characters being accepted is relatively low. The fact that they are from a short-lived (ten years) and now-obsolete modification of the hangul script, whose main inventor was “purged,” strongly suggests that they are not suitable for encoding.

In any case, I have asked two hangul script experts to provide to the UTC feedback on your proposal, which was posted to the UTC document register earlier today as L2/19-230.

[gminky]

@kenlunde

(1) 그 것은 조금 유감스러운 정보네요. 엔코딩될 수 있으면 좋겠습니다만... (개인적으로는, 김일성이 과거에 장래적으로 다시 6자모를 사용할 가능성을 시사한 바 있어서[자모를 추가하는 것은 아직 너무 빠르다고 했다.] 그 것이 좀 마음에 걸리고는 있습니다.) 지금 생각해봤는데 RIEU can be variation of ᄛᅠ = light /r/, LIEUL can be variarion of ᄙᅠ = /l/, UEUB can be variation of ㅸ=/w/ , BANMOEUM-I=/j/ can variation of ㅣ/i/. (And, I think South korean ㅌ like E and North korean ㅌ like ⋜ or 亡, and ㅈ like ス and ㅈ like 一+人 also can be variation.) Can expectation of accept of proposal of variation serecter of hangul be higher than original proposal..?

(2) 위는 별도로 어차피 한글 전문자님께 피드백을 의뢰하여 주셔서 대단히 감사합니다. Thank you very much at any side.

[Example of difference of Hangul design] - I think it don't need to added but only as examples.

[kenlunde]

@gminky Your alternate proposal is a non-starter, because the 11,172 characters in the Hangul Syllables block have a canonical decomposition (aka NFD or Normalization Form D), meaning that they cannot serve as valid Base Characters for a variation sequence.

[gminky]

@kenlunde Yes, How about Hangul Jamo, Hangul Jamo Extended-A or Hangul Jamo Extended-B? (=Apple style?) For ex.

• U+1110 [VS1] U+1161 for (South Korea)
• U+1110 [VS2] U+1161 for (North Korea).
• U+112B [VS1] U+1161 for (standard)
• U+112B [VS2] U+1161 for (New orthography).

(*VS=Variation selecter)

[kiding]

@gminky VS 예시에서 괄호 안의 남한과 북한의 표기가 서로 뒤바뀐 것 같습니다.

[gminky]

@kiding Thank you. I'll amend it.

[kenlunde]

@gimky The introduction of Variation Selectors would adversely affect the proper handling of combining jamo by layout engines, so that is also a non-starter. The seven characters would therefore need to be encoded as atomic characters in the Hangul Jamo Extended-A and Hangul Jamo Extended-B blocks.

Also, in the Proposal Summary Form, for B.3, you checked A (Contemporary), but you should have checked E (Minor extinct) instead. B.4.a should not be "unknown." There is a link to the P&P in the header. Please check it. Specifying "No" for C.2 does not help your proposal.

[gminky]

@kenlunde 어차피 Variation Selectors는 쓰지 못한다는 말씀이시네요..

그리고 유익한 지적을 주셔서 감사합니다. 일단 그렇게 수정해 보겠니다. 감사합니다.

[gminky]

@kenlunde B.4 says "Is a repertoire including character names provided? a. If YES, are the names in accordance with the “character naming guidelines” in Annex L of P&P document?". And Annex L of P&P document links here. But there 404 error. How can I access ISO/IEC 10646: 2012?

[kenlunde]

Click here (ISO does not make previous versions of their standards available).

[gminky]

Thank you. "새 버전이 나오면 예전의 버전은 보지 못하게 된다"는 말씀이군요.

일단 힘 내서 읽어 보겠습니다.

[gminky]

그러면 26 of ISO/IEC 10646: 2017 and 28 of ISO/IEC 10646: 2012 is same?

[kenlunde]

s/28/24/

[gminky]

@kenlunde Thank you.

죄송하지만 하나 더 질문해도 되겠습니까? How can I fill C.2? At least I use this script include 6 letters in personal document and wiki's(mainly Wiki Source). But I don't know other users..

그리고 일단 수정해 봤습니다.

[marekjez86]

The proposal will be submitted for Unicode consideration.

[gminky]

Thank you.

[kenlunde]

@gminky I downloaded the revised proposal, and asked that it be posted to the UTC Document Register as L2/19-230R.

[gminky]

@kenlunde Thank you your help.

[kenlunde]

L2/19-230R has been posted.

[gminky]

너무 감사합니다!

[gminky]

@kenlunde UTC의 피드백을 보았습니다. 먼저 지금까지 많은 도움을 주신 데에 감사 말씀드리겠습니다.

또한 피드백을 주신 2명께도 감사 뜻을 전해 주시면 고맙습니다. Thank you.