notofonts / noto-cjk

Noto CJK fonts
http://www.google.com/get/noto/help/cjk
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Some glyphs are displayed in the mainland Chinese forms (xin zixing) #202

Closed ghost closed 2 years ago

ghost commented 3 years ago

In Noto Sans CJK HK/JP/KR/TC, "䯑" is displayed in mainland Chinese forms (xin zixing). This is a bug. It would be preferable if it were corrected to the forms of each region.

I am concerned that the developers of Noto CJK may have recognized the mainland Chinese form (xin zixing) as the standard form. If they do, they are mistaken; Unicode's example forms also make mistakes.

Font authors who are not familiar with Chinese character culture often misunderstand. Mainland Chinese forms have authority only in Mainland China. It has no authority elsewhere. And Chinese characters are not unique to mainland China. Mainland China-centrism should be stopped.

The only common forms that have authority in all areas of mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Malaysia and Singapore are the Kangxi script and the Shuowen Jiezi.

LiliCharlie commented 3 years ago

That's not a bug, because 䯑 is not part of the HK/JP/KR/TC character sets. That's also why "Noto Sans SC" contains that character but not the other merely national fonts.

The Kangxi Dictionary has no sans-serif characters, and seal script is not yet in Unicode, see https://unicode.org/roadmaps/tip/

ghost commented 3 years ago

It seems to have been a problem with my font viewer. Sorry about that.

ghost commented 3 years ago

In my environment, I have only Noto CJK JP installed; Noto CJK SC is not installed. However, "䯑" is displayed in mainland Chinese forms. Why is this, and does Noto JP include the characters from the Chinese forms?

ghost commented 3 years ago

Screenshot from 2021-10-21 23-26-24 This screenshot shows Gucharmap opened in Noto CJK JP. I do not have Noto SC/TC/HK/KR installed on my computer. So why is the forms not unified?

NightFurySL2001 commented 3 years ago

Noto Sans CJK (lang-tag) is the full version of Noto Sans with full coverage of CN, TW, HK, JP and KR, which will include all glyphs in Noto Sans CJK from all regions. Noto Sans (lang-tag) only contain region-specific subset which will not include glyphs outside the provided range (GB18030/BIG5/JIS/KS X).

As only GB18030-2000 requires a font to contain all characters in CJK Unified Ideographs and Extension A, characters that are not in any of the other national standards will be defaulted to CN form (as intended).

tamcy commented 3 years ago

Noto CJK/Source Han comes with various regional variants, each with different supported scope. This means that the "regional convention guarantee" does not apply to all codepoints. The issue template of Source Han Sans states this clearly:

If you are reporting an issue that affects glyphs for characters for a particular region or regions, did you verify that the characters are within the supported scope of the region or regions? This generally means GB 18030 or Tōngyòng Guīfàn Hànzìbiǎo (通用规范汉字表) for China, Big Five or CNS 11643 Planes 1 & 2 for Taiwan, HKSCS-2016 for Hong Kong, JIS X 0208, JIS X 0212, and JIS X 0213 for Japan, and KS X 1001 and KS X 1002 for Korea.

The character you mentioned, 䯑 (U+4BD1), is not covered by the supported scope of the JP/KR/HK variants, and since it resides in Plane 4 of CNS 11643, it is also outside the scope of Source Han Sans TW. In fact, no reference glyph from JP/KR/HK is present for this codepoint in the Unicode code chart:

4BD1

ghost commented 2 years ago

Noto CJK/Source Han comes with various regional variants, each with different supported scope. This means that the "regional convention guarantee" does not apply to all codepoints. The issue template of Source Han Sans states this clearly:

If you are reporting an issue that affects glyphs for characters for a particular region or regions, did you verify that the characters are within the supported scope of the region or regions? This generally means GB 18030 or Tōngyòng Guīfàn Hànzìbiǎo (通用规范汉字表) for China, Big Five or CNS 11643 Planes 1 & 2 for Taiwan, HKSCS-2016 for Hong Kong, JIS X 0208, JIS X 0212, and JIS X 0213 for Japan, and KS X 1001 and KS X 1002 for Korea.

The character you mentioned, 䯑 (U+4BD1), is not covered by the supported scope of the JP/KR/HK variants, and since it resides in Plane 4 of CNS 11643, it is also outside the scope of Source Han Sans TW. In fact, no reference glyph from JP/KR/HK is present for this codepoint in the Unicode code chart:

4BD1

I don't know about the Unicode situation, so I'd like to talk about kanji in general.

I think that would be China-centric. I would like to see a character form for Japan available as well. Otherwise, there will be no sense of unity and it will feel strange.