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notofonts / noto-fonts

Noto fonts, except for CJK and emoji
http://fonts.google.com/noto
SIL Open Font License 1.1
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Missing small and capital ligature "dz" and "dzs" from Old Hungarian font #2054

Closed tamasbartos closed 3 years ago

tamasbartos commented 3 years ago

Defect Report

Missing "d"+"z" and "d"+"zs" ligatures from NotoSansOlďHungarian font.

Character datas

dz::uni10CC7_10CEF= U+10CC7 + ZWJ + U+10CEF dzs: uni10CC7_10CF0 = U+ 10CC7 + ZWJ + U+10CF0 and these capital pairs.

Font

NotoSansOldHungarian-Regular, Version 2.002, GOOG

Where the font came from, and when

Site: https://github.com/googlefonts/noto-fonts/blob/main/unhinted/ttf/NotoSansOldHungarian/NotoSansOldHungarian-Regular.ttf Date: 2021.04.03.

tamasbartos commented 3 years ago

@rovasinfo Please upload screenshot about Old-Hungarian "dz" and "dzs" letters.

tamasbartos commented 3 years ago

@marekjez86 Remark: these ligature are non-historic ligatures, too.

rovasinfo commented 3 years ago

@rovasinfo Please upload screenshot about Old-Hungarian "dz" and "dzs" letters.

This ex libris shows the first variants of DZ, DZS from 1935 created by Verpeléti Kiss Dezső (conference book, 2008, ISBN 978-963-87967-5-2 p 120

verpeleti1935

Current use, and explanation why D+Z is not equal to DZ and D+ZS is not equal to DZS. http://rovas.info/2011/10/betalkalmazasok-dz-dzs/

kadzomanc

Proposed (still empty) codepoints for these letters: U+10CB3 CAPITAL LETTER DZ U+10CF3 SMALL LETTER DZ U+10CB4 CAPITAL LETTER DZS U+10CF4 SMALL LETTER DZS

tamasbartos commented 3 years ago

@marekjez86 Dear Marek Jezoriek, leader developer of noto-fonts ! Please comment on whether the following ligatures and letters can be inserted into the Unicode Old Hungarian code block: "q", "x", "w", "y", "dz", "dzs" The requested codes by @rovasinfo are the follows (1st is the capital one, 2nd is the small one) : "dz" U+10CB3, U+10CF3 "dzs" U+10CB4, U+10CF4 "w" U+10CB6, U+10CF6 "y" U+10CB8, U+10CF8 requested codes of "q", "x" by @rovasinfo I couldn't find. These code points are reserved code points in the Old Hungarian chart: Unicode Old Hungarian chart These letters and ligatures are not part of the Old Hungarian chart: Unicode Old Hungarian chart The development of the Old Hungarian font within the noto-fonts project depends on your opinion and clarifies the philosophy of the noto-fonts project. Please answer as quickly you can. Regards: Tamás Bartos

rovasinfo commented 3 years ago

Dear @marekjez86 and @tamasbartos It is crucial to understand, that these ligatures are not real ligatures, because they are representing different sound values. You can hear the difference the DZS and D+ZS in this case (LINK)

Although the historical development of the characters DZ, DZS, Q, W, X and Y is similar to the means of ligature-creation method, these characters are not representing ligatures but individual characters of both the official Hungarian orthography of the Latin script and the so called "Old Hungarian" script.

I added another missing characters to the list which are used on these reserved code points:

"dz" U+10CB3, U+10CF3 "dzs" U+10CB4, U+10CF4 "q" U+10CB5, U+10CF5 "w" U+10CB6, U+10CF6 "x" U+10CB7, U+10CF7 "y" U+10CB8, U+10CF8

Code chart (detail) with requested de facto used characters:

Old Hungarian Proposed codepoints

I hope the Noto font will support this contemporary and living script with the abovementioned codepoints. The Noto font will be successful if it fully correlates with the extended Hungarian Latin based alphabet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_alphabet

tamasbartos commented 3 years ago

@marekjez86 @rovasinfo The task of the noto-fonts project is not standardization but the application of the Unicode standard. Although the standard does not prescribe mandatory ligatures, I propose compromisse. Ignore issue #2021 , add "dz", and "dzs" as ligatures, as I defined. Additionally define two v ligature as discrete ligature.

There is another font, which use another codepoints for using @rovasinfo's ligatures and letters. I will upload this font's codechart tomorrow.

robihorvath commented 3 years ago

@rovasinfo As I know, there are two variant of keyboard layout for Old Hungarian script on Linux, whithin the extras. Unfortunately the ZWJ-extended one's sort description not yet translated to Hungarian language, as I know. But the keyboards revision 2.31 extends the numpad with ZWJ and ZWNJ keys on the 3rd level. That wich is wich, I don't know. On the direct ZWJ-extended layout the position ZWJ is the 1st key on the 1st line (position of 0 in latin based Hungarian layout)