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NVDA, the free and open source Screen Reader for Microsoft Windows
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Oddities with home/end and such under bootcamp: fn+nvda key+home/etc doesn't work #2864

Closed nvaccessAuto closed 8 years ago

nvaccessAuto commented 11 years ago

Reported by camlorn on 2012-12-11 17:46 I've got this as defect, but it may need to be enhancement or task. I'm not sure what this falls under. Anyhow. Under bootcamp, the home/end/pgup/pgdn/ins/delete keys are the arrow keys, enter, and backspace with the laptop fn key. Windows does recognize these keys properly, as does nvda: turn on keyboard help and press -only- fn+the arrow keys, etc, and it is announced properly. The problem comes in as soon as the nvda key is thrown into the mix. fn+up arrow works as expected, it's page up. But nvda+fn+up arrow makes nvda think I'm hitting only nvda+up arrow. A couple points. They work under mac osx just fine. The f1-f12 keys are working fine, but that is probably because I checked the box that doesn't require me to use the fn key with them. It is possible that this may generalize to windows laptops that are missing these keys, and use a similar scheme. I do not have one with which I can test: my windows laptop has a full keyboard, including a number pad.

nvaccessAuto commented 11 years ago

Comment 1 by nvdakor on 2012-12-11 18:15 Hi, What happens if you change NVDA key to caps lock? Does other screen readers present similar behavior?

nvaccessAuto commented 11 years ago

Comment 2 by elliott94 on 2012-12-11 19:59 Unfortunately, this is a limitation of Windows with some keyboards. However, you can remap the keys that you need to use; see section 12.1 of the user guide for more information. Closing as cantfix. Changes: Added labels: cantfix State: closed

nvaccessAuto commented 11 years ago

Comment 3 by jteh on 2012-12-11 23:54 It sounds like some sort of bug in Bootcamp drivers. In any case, if that's what NVDA is seeing, there's nothing we can do about it. We already go as low as we can go in terms of keyboard interception.

nvaccessAuto commented 11 years ago

Comment 4 by camlorn (in reply to comment 3) on 2012-12-12 17:13 Replying to jteh:

It sounds like some sort of bug in Bootcamp drivers. In any case, if that's what NVDA is seeing, there's nothing we can do about it. We already go as low as we can go in terms of keyboard interception.

I'm going to look at this further, but yes, I know I can remap.  That is just, well, painful to do...time to open a ticket about easier remapping.
I wasn't sure if this could be fixed, and understand the reasons why it can't; other parts of windows recognize the keys properly, and maybe I'll take a look and see if I can't come up with a solution sometime down the road myself.  Thanks, everyone...quick response times and all.
What is the specific problem here?  Someone indicated that this is an issue with some windows keyboards.  Can anyone provide a reference to a ticket about that, perhaps, or somesuch?
nvaccessAuto commented 11 years ago

Comment 5 by jteh (in reply to comment 4) on 2012-12-12 21:18 Replying to camlorn:

other parts of windows recognize the keys properly

As you said, NVDA recognises the keys properly too, except when you press them with the NVDA key. Since no other parts of Windows use the NVDA key, I don't follow your comparison.

nvaccessAuto commented 11 years ago

Comment 6 by camlorn on 2012-12-16 02:00 My comparison wasn't so much of a comparison as it was a comment: if some part of windows can recognize the home/end key, then there is some interpretation somewhere that makes it recognized. I suspect there is a way to get this to work, but it might be hackish and really terrible. I respect the fact that this is a can'tfix--my setup is probably really rare among the blind community, and literally no information comes up when looking for info on nvda and bootcamp. I can get by without these keys, but for all I knew before asking, it was an easy fix. I asked in the hopes that it was. My comment about windows recognizing the keys was that, if windows can, NVDA can probably be made to do so. For all I know, the effort required is astronomical. I'm going to try, at some point, a demo of jaws--the only other screen reader I know--and see if it does the same thing. Unless there is further interest in this ticket, I'll probably just map the keys to something else at some point and move along; if someone wants me to provide more info, I am most definitely willing to do so.

nvaccessAuto commented 11 years ago

Comment 7 by jteh (in reply to comment 6) on 2013-02-12 04:49 Replying to camlorn:

My comparison wasn't so much of a comparison as it was a comment: if some part of windows can recognize the home/end key, then there is some interpretation somewhere that makes it recognized.

As I understand it, Windows is correctly recognising the home/end key, as is NVDA. The issue occurs when you try to press it in combination with the NVDA key. As strange as it sounds, keyboard drivers (even keyboards themselves!) can treat these cases quite differently. Some keyboards just refuse to handle certain combinations of keys.