MSWord 2010-on reaching the last cell in a table user needs to be ifnormed that TAB can result in a new empty row.

[nvaccessAuto]

Reported by sumandogra on 2013-02-22 14:14 MS Word 2010 On reaching the last cell in a table, NVDA does not give the warning that pressing TAB may result in creating another row below the last row of the table. This message is very important. Instead NVDA announces -out of table and create a new empty row. This can result in confusion to some users. Steps to reproduce:

1. Open document that has tables.
2. Navigate to a table.
3. Navigate in the table with TAB or SHIFT+TAB.
4. Move to the last cell in the table.
5. Press TAB.
6. NVDA announces-out of table. Anther row gets created automatically. But NVDA does not inform the user on reaching the last cell the user is not informed that on pressing TAB further another row will be created and it is the last cell in the table.

It will be helpful if user is informed about the last cell and a warning is given that on using TAB further a new empty row will be created.

Blocked by #46

[nvaccessAuto]

Attachment 3018_Last_Cell_of_Table_bugfix1.patch added by rameshwar.nagar on 2013-05-02 09:53 Description: NVDA report when user reach in last cell of table using Tab or Ctrl+Alt+ArrowKey Update: File added from Trac 3018_Last_Cell_of_Table_bugfix1.patch.txt

[nvaccessAuto]

Comment 1 by jteh on 2013-02-24 01:06 This is a help message. While I understand the desire for it for newer users, NVDA doesn't currently support help messages at all, so this would need to be implemented first.

[nvaccessAuto]

Comment 2 by rameshwar.nagar on 2013-05-02 09:19 Now User reach on last cell using Tab or Ctrl+Alt+Arrow(Key) then NVDA announce that Last Cell of Table. I atteched patch file for review.

[nvaccessAuto]

Comment 3 by bhavyashah on 2015-01-17 12:08 Hi, Please add the keywords 'needs code review' to this ticket since a patch seems to have been provided. ONe more question, is the provided patch specifically for Microsoft Office Word 2010, or will it work on other versions of MS Word? Thanks.

[bhavyashah]

@jcsteh mentions in https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/3018#issuecomment-155305098 that NVDA currently does not support help messages. While I am unaware of the technical meaning of 'help messages', could someone please cite the ticket which covers the general support of help messages, if one exists? Also, the NeedsCodeReview label needs to be added and the attachment needs to be restored. @ehollig

[nsousa2007]

Hi,

Find attached some examples and bug and improvement lists to fix related with tables. It is very important since it happens in various Ms office versions. Sorry for uploading it like this.

Thanks TableExamplesNVDA.docx

[Adriani90]

Actually a table should not be read by pressing tab or shift+tab. Users should be encouraged to use ctrl+alt+arrow keys because this fives you a much better orientation within the table. And you hear the borders of the table as well. I suggest instead of investing so much work in implementing such a function, we should add some practical recomendations in the user guide which gives the user some tools to work productively with.

In forms for example you do not get announced that the next tab press will bring you back to the first field. And in my opinion we can find lots of such logical navigation paths where users are not desoriented even though NVDA does not announce what will happen next. For example pressing tab when editing an excel cell brings you to the next cell but your text will be saved in the previous cell. This is also not announced but it is known by every ecxel user and thus, this behavior does not desorientate users.

I suggest closing this issue and adding some recommendations in the user guide.

[Adriani90]

@rameshwar.nagar could you please raise a Pull request for this issue?

[Adriani90]

@jcsteh, @michaelDCurran, the author of the patch uploaded above seems not to be available on Github anymore. In my view we do not need this extra verbosity because the table borders are reported by NVDA when navigating with ctrl+alt+arrow keys. Are there any plans to implement this though?

[Adriani90]

After thinking more about this, I think for braille display users would be beneficial to have such a feature like a notification which can appear for five seconds or so. But in my view this would not be needed for speech.

[nsousa2007]

Hi,

I think it makes all sense that this message is given by speech. I agree with you that Ctrl+ Alt should be used as youre reading, but when you 're filling the table it is more practical to use Tab.

Regards, NSousa

Em sex, 3 de mai de 2019 às 20:57, Adriani90 notifications@github.com escreveu:

After thinking more about this, I think for braille display users would be beneficial to have such a feature like a notification which can appear for five seconds or so. But in my view this would not be needed for speech.

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[Adriani90]

After thinking more about this, the fact that pressing tab in the last cell creates a new row, is valid also for sighted people and there is no message for them which displays that a new row is created, at least according to my knowledge. So I think this should be covered by basic knowledge of the application and not by adding a custom message in NVDA. @lukaszgo1, @Qchristensen what do you think? Especially Quentin, can you confirm there is no message displayed for sighted people when focusing the last cell with tab?

[XLTechie]

There may be no specific message, but the fact that a new row visually appears, and its cells are blank, is likely immediately apparent to a sighted user. If the whole table is on the screen, it can be seen to grow, yes?

IMO that warrants that equivalent knowledge be passed to a blind user. A message is likely the best, maybe the only, way to do that.

[lukaszgo1]

Currently, at least in the Microsoft Word in Office 365, when pressing TAB in the last cell of a table NVDA announces that the table size has changed, and that caret has moved to the new cell, along with its coordinates. This however covers only the part of the issue, that is blind user is aware that new row was added. There is however, no announcement that the cell in which user is positioned currently is the last one, which is pretty apparent to a sighted person. I don't have a clear idea in which way this can be communicated, as not to be overly verbose, but the original problem, is IMHO, valid to some extend.

[nsousa2007]

Hi,

Since NVDA has the information about how many rows/coluns the table has, perhaps is not so dificult to verbose such message. I don't know if it helps but: Jaws, since long time ago, warns: Last row, pressing tab adds a new row; Narrator, tested now with word 2016, doesn't announce anything pressing Tab, but if you press shift + tab to the previous row, it announces, for example, row 2 of 4 rows. And if you press Ctrl + Alt + arrow Down in the last row, it announces that it is the last row.

Regards, NSousa

Łukasz Golonka @.***> escreveu no dia sábado, 16/09/2023 à(s) 10:56:

Currently, at least in the Microsoft Word in Office 365, when pressing TAB in the last cell of a table NVDA announces that the table size has changed, and that caret has moved to the new cell, along with its coordinates. This however covers only the part of the issue, that is blind user is aware that new row was added. There is however, no announcement that the cell in which user is positioned currently is the last one, which is pretty apparent to a sighted person. I don't have a clear idea in which way this can be communicated, as not to be overly verbose, but the original problem, is IMHO, valid to some extend.

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[Adriani90]

For NVDA to report the new added row properly, "tables" must be enabled in document formating settings. Even though cell coorinates are enabled, these work only together with the tables option. This bug, at least for browse mode, how ever is already covered in #8583.

I think this issue would be solved if there was the possibility to switch into a table mode where you can use arrow keys to navigate the cells. We could introduce gesture layers, wher i.e. you press nvda+shift+t to enable table mode and then use arrow keys or other commands to navigate the table without leaving it.