search

nvaccess / nvda

NVDA, the free and open source Screen Reader for Microsoft Windows
https://www.nvaccess.org/
Other
2.1k stars 634 forks source link

Problem with capital letter mark #505

Closed nvaccessAuto closed 1 year ago

nvaccessAuto commented 14 years ago

Reported by werwoelfchen on 2009-12-09 10:06 Since Snapshot R3422 the braille display doesn't show any longer the capital letter marks. It would be good if one could dis- or enable these marks by using the braille settings menu.

Text in German: Betreff: Problem mit Großbuchstabenzeichen Beschreibung: Seit dem Snapshop R3422 zeigt die Braillezeile keine Großbuchstabenzeichen mehr an. Es wäre gut, wenn man dies ein- oder ausschalten könnte, indem man das Menü "Brailleeinstellungen" benutzt.

nvaccessAuto commented 14 years ago

Comment 1 by jteh on 2009-12-09 11:21 Are you certain that this worked before snapshot r3422? Could it have been r3428 instead? What braille translation table are you using? What application are you testing this in? Does it work if you have capitalised words in the middle of the line?

nvaccessAuto commented 14 years ago

Comment 2 by jteh on 2010-02-02 01:30 Changes: Milestone changed from 2010.1 to 2010.2

nvaccessAuto commented 14 years ago

Comment 3 by werwoelfchen on 2010-02-08 12:06 I use the german grate 1 (deutsche Kurzschrift) translation table. maybe I named the wrong trunk njumber but I cannot verrify it any more. The capital letter mark only appears at the beginning of an URL. I have this problem in all apps I use with NVDA. I use the universal handytech driver 1.1.1.1 for NVDA.

nvaccessAuto commented 14 years ago

Comment 4 by jteh on 2010-07-14 04:18 Please provide some example text that works, some text that doesn't and what you expected in each case.

nvaccessAuto commented 14 years ago

Comment 5 by jteh on 2010-07-26 03:35 Probably a problem with this specific braille table. Changes: Milestone changed from 2010.2 to 2010.3

nvaccessAuto commented 14 years ago

Comment 6 by jteh on 2010-09-23 02:03 I tested this myself with all of the German tables. It definitely seems to be an issue in the German grade 0, grade 1 and grade 2 tables. Someone who knows German braille will need to take this up with the liblouis project. Changes: Milestone changed from 2010.3 to None

nvaccessAuto commented 10 years ago

Comment 8 by bdorer on 2014-01-14 13:35 the best would be a checkbox for suppressing capital letter marks as some people want to have them displayed and some don't.

dkager commented 7 years ago

CC @egli This seems to be done on purpose. Is this the preference of German readers?

Maybe NVDA could gain an option to suppress capitals. SuperNova has this too IIRC. The clean solution requires an option in liblouis. A hacky solution could be to transform all text to lowercase before translation. The problem is that German grade 0 does show a capital sign for two or more consecutive capitals. So clearly it's not so straight-forward.

bdorer commented 7 years ago

This feature is wanted from many German Braille Readers. Some of them are using Grade 2 to proove reading so if you'll find a solution it would be great. Some persons created their own braille tables with capital letter mark enabled but they have to restore the table after nvda updates.

Am 08.06.2017 um 20:26 schrieb Davy Kager:

CC @egli https://github.com/egli This seems to be done on purpose. Is this the preference of German readers?

Maybe NVDA could gain an option to suppress capitals. SuperNova has this too IIRC. The clean solution requires an option in liblouis. A hacky solution could be to transform all text to lowercase before translation. The problem is that German grade 0 does show a capital sign for two or more consecutive capitals. So clearly it's not so straight-forward.

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/505#issuecomment-307187715, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AKun5YkQKEwPwx76gxKMtBXMIP5GkNz3ks5sCDzkgaJpZM4N0czj.

dkager commented 7 years ago

See https://github.com/liblouis/liblouis/issues/363.

bdorer commented 7 years ago

Separate Tables with and without caps letters will blow up braille tables list but if there isn't any better way we'll accept it.

Am 27.06.2017 um 20:07 schrieb Davy Kager:

See liblouis/liblouis#363 https://github.com/liblouis/liblouis/issues/363.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/505#issuecomment-311439160, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AKun5dBcirIhtYd8q6JEDbg_CXUhxiOgks5sIUTfgaJpZM4N0czj.

dkager commented 7 years ago

Then again, German is the only table I've seen without capitals.

egli commented 7 years ago

I think our resident braille expert created the tables w/o caps letters because we produce most braille without. But what's the problem with just adding another table? In what way will it "blow up the braille tables list"?

LeonarddeR commented 7 years ago

I think our resident braille expert created the tables w/o caps letters because we produce most braille without. But what's the problem with just adding another table? In what way will it "blow up the braille tables list"?

Even if most braille is produced without capital signs, if a braille spec contains them, they should be included in the braille table by default. Probably better to discuss this in liblouis/liblouis#363.

bhavyashah commented 4 years ago

The impact of this issue is limited to the intersection of (a) Braille users, (b) German users. Doing some research on the German language, let me share some of what I found. Austria and Germany, both of which have German as their official language, cumulatively account for a third of German speakers worldwide. According to NVDA User Statistics, Germany and Austria together account for 1.3% of NVDA users. Thus, it can be extrapolated that roughly 3.9% of NVDA users are German speakers. According to WebAim Screen Reader Survey #8, 3.9% of respondents reported that they relied primarily on Braille output and they neglected to ask about using Braille in combination with visual or audio output. Even if we assume that 20% of screen reader users use Braille to some degree, we still have our German Braille users constituting well under 1% of the total user base. Therefore, given the small proportion of the impacted audience, this ticket should be assigned a low priority. P.S. Some crude calculations in there, but I think the general picture is suggest is accurate. Not sure why I am cerebrating so much about impact calculation. 😂

Adriani90 commented 4 years ago

@bhavyashah even though the statistics show this number, this was the current user respondents at that time. This changes over time and not to forget that most users using braille displays come from western countries such as germany, france and so on. Most braille contributions come from such countries. So this should not be neglected. Moreover, by the way switzerland belongs also to german speaking community, as well as many other countries where people might have to learn german in the school. Not to forget imigrants who move to Germany or similar countries which is very comon in a globalized world. I know at least 10 blind people who came to Germany from abroad and try to learn german. For such people it is important to keep in mind the issues they are having. Anyway, I think this issue needs to be fixed in Liblouis, I don't think NVDA can do anything about this. But we can track the progress here.

Adriani90 commented 4 years ago

@BueVest now that the bidirectional talbes for german are integrated in NVDA, do you see this issue as solved?

dave090679 commented 1 year ago

Hey all,

Since nvda has the "detailed braille translation tables" integrated, the capital letter marks are displayed correctly. ... BUT: In some Cases, NVDA crashes when the detailed braille translation table is used.

Steps to reproduce:

  1. open an empty Notepad.
  2. in nvda braille settings, select any braille table marked as "detailed". (either "german basic braille (detailed)" or "german grade 1 (detailed)" or "german grade 2 (detailed)".
  3. in the notepad, type an uppercase letter followed by a dot (.) and two lowercase letters. Just when you type the secons lowercase letter, nvda crashes.

There are some exceptions from this "stranger thing": "A.aa" works properly; "A.ab" also works, "A.ac" also works fine, ... bus "A.ad" brings nvda to crash.

in dayly use, this means that nearly all file names can bring nvda to crash when they are displayed in an explorer list.

CyrilleB79 commented 1 year ago

@Adriani90 you have followed this issue. Do you think that it is fixed?

Also @BueVest and other users, can we consider this issue fixed?

@dave090679, the initial description of this issue is indicating that braille is not reported as expected by users. What you describe instead is a crash of NVDA. Please open a new issue for this with all related details so that it can be looked at specifically. Thanks.

egli commented 1 year ago

In some Cases, NVDA crashes when the detailed braille translation table is used.

Hi @dave090679 can you reproduce this crash just using liblouis? And then file an issue at the liblouis issue tracker? That would be appreciated.

Adriani90 commented 1 year ago

The issue as it stands in the description seems fixed. Please open a new issue about the crash with Liblouis and if related, also with NVDA so we can track where it comes from.

I am closing this issue as works for me.