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Excel 2013:Pivot tables cannot be created with the help of NVDA. #5248

Open nvaccessAuto opened 9 years ago

nvaccessAuto commented 9 years ago

Reported by sumandogra on 2015-07-28 11:00 Excel 2013:Pivot tables cannot be created with the help of NVDA.

Excel 2013: could not create a pivot table with the help of NVDA. The dialog in which the table or the rnage values have to be put in, is not read with LEFT or RIGHT ARROSS. A separate bug will be submitted for this issue.

on reaching the place where the fields have to be selected for creating a pivot table in sheet, no information is gien y NVDA. There seems to some information that helps a user select the fields to create a pivot table. Steps to reproduce:

  1. Take an excel sheet that has certain values that are replicated and need to be analyzed. Please see the attachment.
  2. Select the complete table or the range of values that need to be analyzed. In our example complete table will be selected.
  3. Go to the Insert menu and select pivot table.
  4. Create pivot table dialog appears.
  5. Select the values as required. In example sheet attached case we will select the values from A1 to E40.
  6. Select the new worksheet radio button and then select OK button to close the dialog.
  7. A new sheet will appear.
  8. But there is no clue of what to do next in order to get the fields and their values to create the pivot table.
nvaccessAuto commented 9 years ago

Attachment Excel2013_Pivot_Practice.xlsx added by sumandogra on 2015-07-28 11:01 Description: Update: File added from Trac Excel2013_Pivot_Practice.xlsx

Adriani90 commented 5 years ago

Ok I think I understand this issue. When you create a pivot table, the table is empty. There is a pivot table toolbar where you can select which values should be displayed in columns and which ones should be displayed in rows. But that toolbar is only accessible with mouse navigation. Not in the ribbon menu and not with usual keyboard navigation. so if you are not familiar with mouse navigation, you cannot really create a pivot table. This is also reproducible in MS Excel 2010 and Excel 2016 and 365. Honnestly I think this is bad implementation from Microsoft side. @michaelDCurran, @Qchristensen if so, could you please report this to Microsoft? Thank you very much.

lukaszgo1 commented 5 years ago

In Excel 2010 ad least you can access this toolbar by pressing f6. The controls that are used to select which items should be displayed in the table are buttons whereas they are check boxes, but the checked one are written in bold, which can be checked in the screen review. Not very easy and efficient, but definitely doable.

Adriani90 commented 5 years ago

Hey thanks for the fast reaction. Testing in Excel 2010, do you have specific settings regarding view or so? When I press f6 I get only either to the status bar, the usual ribbons or the table itself. But not to the pivot table toolbar.

Von: Łukasz Golonka notifications@github.com Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. Januar 2019 22:47 An: nvaccess/nvda nvda@noreply.github.com Cc: Adriani90 adriani.botez@googlemail.com; Comment comment@noreply.github.com Betreff: Re: [nvaccess/nvda] Excel 2013:Pivot tables cannot be created with the help of NVDA. (#5248)

In Excel 2010 ad least you can access this toolbar by pressing f6. The controls that are used to select which items should be displayed in the table are buttons whereas they are check boxes, but the checked one are written in bold, which can be checked in the screen review. Not very easy and efficient, but definitely doable.

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lukaszgo1 commented 5 years ago

I've done the following:

  1. Download the attachment from this ticket called Excel2013_Pivot_Practice.xlsx
  2. Opened it in Excel 2010 32-bit on Windows 7
  3. From the Insert ribbon I've chosen table and the pivot table
  4. I haven't changed anything in the next window just pressed ok.
  5. Then in the newly opened sheet I've pressed f6 and NVDA announced toolbar in which I can navigate with tab and arrows. I am not sure why your results are different.
lukaszgo1 commented 5 years ago

Ah one more thing you have to be in the range included in the pivot table for this toolbar to be reachable with a f6 key, otherwise you cannot move focus there. So in the attached sheet if your create pivot table and then move to the f1 which is outside of the included range f6 would cycle between ribbon, status bar ant the sheet itself.

Adriani90 commented 5 years ago

Ah ok this is interesting. Indeed it works with f6 if you are in the right range. I wonder if NVDA could Report when you enter or leave the Pivot table area?

Novalis7747 commented 5 years ago

Pivots are working great in Excel 2013 and Excel 365. The trick is to start at cell a3. This is always the first cell in a pivot. Then hit F6 and you will be placed in a list of available fields (column headers from the original selected range). Here you cann arrow down the list. If you found your field right click or hit the application key and choose from the available options to place the field as row, column, value etc. From my point of view, and I use pivots all day long there is no issue with NVDA and pivots..

Adriani90 commented 5 years ago

Well, if you know that it always starts in a3 it's ok. But for new users I guess this is not obvious. So an announcement that that the Cursor entered the Pivot area would be actually a desired behavior. And this is also the case for autofilter or Dropdown lists.

lukaszgo1 commented 5 years ago

I believe the question is how it is communicated to the sighted users. I will heck with someone sighted later today.

Adriani90 commented 5 years ago

Maybe @Qchristensen could give us some indications on how is the pivot area displayed for sighted people.

lukaszgo1 commented 5 years ago

I've looked with someone sighted and:

Therefore I believe that this issue should be closed. Basic knowledge of the used program, in this case Excel is simply required to work with the pivot tables. Having said that this info should be included in the Microsoft Excel With NVDA module. @Qchristensen Any chance for expanding a section about pivot tables there?

Adriani90 commented 5 years ago

@lukaszgo1 maybe I am not understanding correctly the initial description of the isue. But I think the author was requesting exactly this, namely that NVDA gives feedback when entering or leaving the range. In this case it could read the message which is displayed for the sighted people. At least we should get the same information as sighted people. But this is only my opinion.

lukaszgo1 commented 5 years ago

I've looked further, and we are getting the message, ad least in Excel 2010 it can be accessed in screen review, and when pressing NVDA +numpad 5 the cell on top which it is displayed is properly reported.

lukaszgo1 commented 5 years ago

In Excel 365 screen review doesn't work. I see two ways in which the announcement can be implemented however none of the looks really good to me.

  1. Announce 'in the pivot table' for every cell which is the part of the pivot table - very verbose.
  2. announce the start or the end of the pivot table when moving with the arrow keys to the cells included in it - not very elegant what if user moves to the cell in the middle with ctrl+g for example.
Novalis7747 commented 5 years ago

Only 2. Would be a good option, otherwise you would be spamed with “pivot” announcements when working within a Pivot table.

From: Łukasz Golonka notifications@github.com Sent: Samstag, 2. Februar 2019 20:22 To: nvaccess/nvda nvda@noreply.github.com Cc: Ralf Kefferpuetz novalis7747@live.com; Comment comment@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [nvaccess/nvda] Excel 2013:Pivot tables cannot be created with the help of NVDA. (#5248)

In Excel 365 screen review doesn't work. I see two ways in which the announcement can be implemented however none of the looks really good to me.

  1. Announce 'in the pivot table' for every cell which is the part of the pivot table - very verbose.
  2. announce the start or the end of the pivot table when moving with the arrow keys to the cells included in it - not very elegant what if user moves to the cell in the middle with ctrl+g for example.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F5248%23issuecomment-459991855&data=02%7C01%7C%7C639a3ffd825d4063e00308d68943b7a6%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636847321262655871&sdata=DQktRqG6mOG0HOn3GVQZR7MC8FG554cqyXFVmLxxbc8%3D&reserved=0, or mute the threadhttps://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnotifications%2Funsubscribe-auth%2FAffwnLzi0FBP1pO_BA8o7Lg9tLPPNVwNks5vJeVdgaJpZM4aY_fL&data=02%7C01%7C%7C639a3ffd825d4063e00308d68943b7a6%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636847321262665876&sdata=NH8i7%2BWeKraBRkv6xSsKZNPg2PnHluNpcR73mXI5niY%3D&reserved=0.

Adriani90 commented 5 years ago

Maybe this could be a use case for speech refactoring. cc: @jcsteh

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 02.02.2019 um 21:10 schrieb Ralf Kefferpuetz notifications@github.com:

Only 2. Would be a good option, otherwise you would be spamed with “pivot” announcements when working within a Pivot table.

From: Łukasz Golonka notifications@github.com Sent: Samstag, 2. Februar 2019 20:22 To: nvaccess/nvda nvda@noreply.github.com Cc: Ralf Kefferpuetz novalis7747@live.com; Comment comment@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [nvaccess/nvda] Excel 2013:Pivot tables cannot be created with the help of NVDA. (#5248)

In Excel 365 screen review doesn't work. I see two ways in which the announcement can be implemented however none of the looks really good to me.

  1. Announce 'in the pivot table' for every cell which is the part of the pivot table - very verbose.
  2. announce the start or the end of the pivot table when moving with the arrow keys to the cells included in it - not very elegant what if user moves to the cell in the middle with ctrl+g for example.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F5248%23issuecomment-459991855&data=02%7C01%7C%7C639a3ffd825d4063e00308d68943b7a6%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636847321262655871&sdata=DQktRqG6mOG0HOn3GVQZR7MC8FG554cqyXFVmLxxbc8%3D&reserved=0, or mute the threadhttps://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnotifications%2Funsubscribe-auth%2FAffwnLzi0FBP1pO_BA8o7Lg9tLPPNVwNks5vJeVdgaJpZM4aY_fL&data=02%7C01%7C%7C639a3ffd825d4063e00308d68943b7a6%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636847321262665876&sdata=NH8i7%2BWeKraBRkv6xSsKZNPg2PnHluNpcR73mXI5niY%3D&reserved=0. — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

Qchristensen commented 5 years ago

I haven't looked at Pivot Tables much in awhile. I will review and update the Excel module this year and have made a note to look at incorporating using Pivot Tables when I do.

Adriani90 commented 1 year ago

Using UIA for Microsoft Excel solves this issue, but I guess only for MS Office 365. This should be kept open maybe someone can implement the same solution for object model as well.