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NVDA, the free and open source Screen Reader for Microsoft Windows
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Add English (U.S.) 8 dot extended computer braille table to the list #6836

Closed dkager closed 7 years ago

dkager commented 7 years ago

This was recently added to liblouis, pending the relase of 3.1: https://github.com/liblouis/liblouis/commit/b4e87936cb461dcc66178786185f457440a1bc12 The table name is en-us-comp8-ext.utb.

This requires:

Also appreciated:

Open questions:

josephsl commented 7 years ago

Hi, are there real-life use cases for this table, including possible endorsements and testimonials from users and organizations? Thanks.

From: Davy Kager [mailto:notifications@github.com] Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 11:25 AM To: nvaccess/nvda nvda@noreply.github.com Cc: Subscribed subscribed@noreply.github.com Subject: [nvaccess/nvda] Add English (U.S.) 8 dot extended computer braille table to the list (#6836)

This was recently added to liblouis, pending the relase of 3.1: liblouis/liblouis@ https://github.com/liblouis/liblouis/commit/b4e87936cb461dcc66178786185f457440a1bc12 b4e8793 The table name is en-us-comp8-ext.utb.

This requires:

Also appreciated:

Open questions:

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dkager commented 7 years ago

Yes: you can read anything that can be displayed with the Windows-1252 codepage. Examples include bullets, the euro sign and accented letters. @leonardder Can you say something about organization support?

dkager commented 7 years ago

See also https://github.com/liblouis/liblouis/pull/261

LeonarddeR commented 7 years ago

As a trainer at @babbagecom, I've already met several people who would like an extended US 8 dot braille table due to the several missing characters in the current one. Even letters like é, ë and á do not have a braille character assigned in the standard table. In the Netherlands, we do not have an 8 dot Dutch table, so either people use the English or German 8 dots table. But as mentioned, the current English one has its drawbacks

josephsl commented 7 years ago

Hi, suppose we do have evidence of support from users and organizations from one part of the world. How about other parts, such as United States where BANA rules are in effect? I personally don’t mind this being added and perhaps create a survey/experiment, but I’d like to hear comments from others around the world. Thanks.

From: Davy Kager [mailto:notifications@github.com] Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 11:36 AM To: nvaccess/nvda nvda@noreply.github.com Cc: Joseph Lee joseph.lee22590@gmail.com; Comment comment@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [nvaccess/nvda] Add English (U.S.) 8 dot extended computer braille table to the list (#6836)

Yes: you can read anything that can be displayed with the Windows-1252 codepage. Examples include bullets, the euro sign and accented letters. @leonardder https://github.com/leonardder Can you say something about organization support?

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dkager commented 7 years ago

IMO this is a subject for discussion within liblouis. This issue is intended to track progress while that discussion is going on.

As for the screen reader side, this table implements a compromise of what the major screen readers for Windows are currently calling U.S. English 8-dot braille. As the table mentions I was unable to find any official standards for one-to-one mappings of characters beyond ASCII, nor did inquiries at screen reader vendors reveal any specification documents.

dkager commented 7 years ago

See also here for discussion on the liblouis mailing list.

jcsteh commented 7 years ago

Is this a computer braille table in the strictest sense; i.e. is it a pure 1 to 1 mapping or are there duplicates/double cells? If it isn't strict, it can't be considered computer braille for input purposes, since the behaviour of duplicated/multi-cell patterns will be undesirable.

dkager commented 7 years ago

There are duplicates, and even some multi-cell patterns (ligatures). But backtranslation should be unambiguous through the use of the noback opcode.

jcsteh commented 7 years ago

To clarify, do you mean noback has already been used where necessary? Also, has it been used for all multi-cell patterns or only for duplicates? Again, any multi-cell patterns aren't computer braille in a strict sense and thus can't be handled; we'd need to treat the table as uncontracted (which requires #2439).

dkager commented 7 years ago

There should be no multi-cell patterns that allow to be backtranslated. For single-cell patterns, there should always be zero or one matches for backtranslation. I say "should" because there doesn't seem to be a utility in liblouis to formally check this.

Obviously, forward translation is neither unambiguous nor only single-cell.

dkager commented 7 years ago

Re #6935

Brian1Gaff commented 7 years ago

Does this inclusion explain the error I'm getting in recent Next snaps when running the installer from the next archive? I posted this to the dev list recently. Should this not be trapped so when it does not seem to be found its not going to generate an error sound?

Brian

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Re #6935

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dkager commented 7 years ago

Does this inclusion explain the error I'm getting in recent Next snaps when running the installer from the next archive?

It would be really helpful if you could post the error, along with steps to reproduce if you have them.

LeonarddeR commented 7 years ago

If you have once installed Next and than run a master installer, this error is expected. From what you said on NVDA devel, I assumed this was the case. Are you sure you get these errors in most recent next?