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NVDA, the free and open source Screen Reader for Microsoft Windows
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Beep sound feedback instead of speech/braille feedback on pressing NumLock, CapsLock and ScrollLock #9274

Open DrSooom opened 5 years ago

DrSooom commented 5 years ago

Path:

NVDA menu » Preferences » Settings... » Keyboard

Steps to reproduce:

tspivey commented 5 years ago

Windows already has Toggle keys.

josephsl commented 5 years ago

Hi, as @TSpivey pointed out, Windows already has toggle keys feature. I propose closing this as invalid unless a really (yes, really) compelling reason (other than the ones already stated) is given. Thanks.

From: Daniel Mayr notifications@github.com Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 6:09 PM To: nvaccess/nvda nvda@noreply.github.com Cc: Subscribed subscribed@noreply.github.com Subject: [nvaccess/nvda] Beep sound feedback on pressing NumLock, CapsLock and ScrollLock (#9274)

Path:

NVDA menu » Preferences » Settings... » Keyboard

Steps to reproduce:

Actual behaviour:

The name of the pressed key and the changed status is announced via speech and braille (if braille message timeout isn't set to "0").

Expected behaviour:

Add a combobox called "Announce the changed status of NumLock, CapsLock and ScrollLock via" in the Keyboard NVDA Settings with the following two values

Beep frequencies:

Beep stereo position:

Reasons:

  1. The changed status of the keys can be faster recognized by the user based on the beep sound feedback instead of speech.
  2. The position of those three keys is firm on a keyboard and advanced/power users know them already. So announcing the name of those keys makes absolutely no sense for them.
  3. A checkbox called "Center beep sound feedback for NumLock, CapsLock and ScrollLock" is absolutely required for those users who have problems hearing stereo correctly.

System configuration:

NVDA installed/portable:

Both

NVDA version:

2018.4.1

Windows version:

Win7 to Win10-1903

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DrSooom commented 5 years ago

@tspivey: Thanks for the hint, but it absolutely doesn't solve this issue, especially because of NVDA. It would work for non-screenreader users, but …

Steps to reproduce:

  1. Enable "Toggle keys" via the EAC/Keyboard settings (WIN+U) on Windows 7.
  2. Set the CapsLock key as a NVDA modifier key, which is the default behaviour on all my machines – and which is recommended for notebook/laptop users too.
  3. And now press the CapsLock key twice.

    Actual behaviour:

  4. Every time when the CapsLock key is pressed, a beep sound appears. So if you press it twice, two beeps appear. And every time when you are pressing NVDA+[doesn't matter], it beeps.
  5. And the beep sound frequency always reports the previous status of this key.
    • So if CapsLock is turned on, the lower tone appears.
    • And if CapsLock is turned off, the higher tone appears.
  6. Normally the higher tone appears after the key was switched on and the lower after it was switched off.
  7. And NVDA – of course – is still reporting the name of the key and its status via speech and braille – as I thought. (Why should this behaviour changed here after turning the option on in the EAC at all?)

As this behaviour is extremely riding on my nerves just after a few minutes, I can't use this option any more. And it's also not possible not to use the CapsLock key as a NVDA modifier key too.

So I see no other way to implement this directly into NVDA as Windows and NVDA are influencing each other at a really, really annoying and confusing way.

josephsl commented 5 years ago

Hi, I can confirm what Daniel is saying. To reduce confusion, I advise changing the title of this issue to say that toggle key beeps are heard whenever you use caps lock key with that key set as NVDA modifier key. CC @MichaelDCurran, @LeonardDer

From: Daniel Mayr notifications@github.com Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 7:54 PM To: nvaccess/nvda nvda@noreply.github.com Cc: Joseph Lee joseph.lee22590@gmail.com; Comment comment@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [nvaccess/nvda] Beep sound feedback on pressing NumLock, CapsLock and ScrollLock (#9274)

@tspivey https://github.com/tspivey : Thanks for the hint, but it absolutely doesn't solve this issue, especially because of NVDA. It would work for non-screenreader users, but …

Steps to reproduce:

  1. Enable "Toggle keys" via the EAC/Keyboard settings (WIN+U) on Windows 7.
  2. Set the CapsLock key as a NVDA modifier key, which is the default behaviour on all my machines – and which is recommended for notebook/laptop users too.
  3. And now press the CapsLock key twice.

Actual behaviour:

  1. Every time when the CapsLock key is pressed, a beep sound appears. So if you press it twice, two beeps appear. And every time when you are pressing NVDA+[doesn't matter], it beeps.
  2. And the beep sound frequency always reports the previous status of this key.
  1. Normally the higher tone appears after the key was switched on and the lower after it was switched off.
  2. And NVDA – of course – is still reporting the name of the key and its status via speech and braille – as I thought. (Why should this behaviour changed here after turning the option on in the EAC at all?)

As this behaviour is extremely riding on my nerves just after a few minutes, I can't use this option any more. And it's also not possible not to use the CapsLock key as a NVDA modifier key too.

So I see no other way to implement this directly into NVDA as Windows and NVDA are influencing each other at a really, really annoying and confusing way.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/9274#issuecomment-463478544 , or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AHgLkIxW4-V95RCAdm3-1Zl7rTVUQionks5vNN2_gaJpZM4a6qsF .

LeonarddeR commented 5 years ago

I think it is just what one is accustomed to. I'm using toggle keys for over ten years now and, even when using the caps lock as NVDA modifier, I really find it beneficial for my work flow. I'd rather investigate the possibility to suppress the toggle key sound on first press of the caps lock when it is the NVDA key. However, I'm afraid this is gonna be difficult.

Brian1Gaff commented 5 years ago

Sometimes thy may work if the wind is in the right directions. are you sure its not lower level than windows? Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Spivey" notifications@github.com To: "nvaccess/nvda" nvda@noreply.github.com Cc: "Subscribed" subscribed@noreply.github.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 2:24 AM Subject: Re: [nvaccess/nvda] Beep sound feedback on pressing NumLock, CapsLock and ScrollLock (#9274)

Windows already has Toggle keys.

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DrSooom commented 5 years ago

@josephsl: I recently changed the issue title for clarification. Your suggestion isn't the intention of this issue.

@leonardder: And on my side this beep sound feedback on pressing the NVDA modifier key is absolutely annoying and extremely interrupts my workflow – especially when I’m hearing music in the background. Furthermore I think it is easier to implement the beep sound feedback feature as an option to NVDA instead of investigating the reasons for this influences between Windows and NVDA.