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NVDA, the free and open source Screen Reader for Microsoft Windows
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Add additional ways to restart NVDA #9686

Open Qchristensen opened 5 years ago

Qchristensen commented 5 years ago

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.

Occasionally it is necessary to restart NVDA. The "Exit NVDA" screen (NVDA+Q) provides several options for restarting, restarting with add-ons disabled etc.

If the "Show exit options when exiting NVDA" checkbox is unchecked in NVDA's general settings, there is no easy way to perform these restart options.

Describe the solution you'd like

Two possible ideas:

Describe alternatives you've considered

Currently you can go into general settings, check "Show exit options when exiting NVDA" checkbox, then press NVDA+q. Or you can open a run or command dialog and type "nvda -r --disable-addons" to restart with add-ons disabled.

Additional context

josephsl commented 5 years ago

Hi, can we also do something about advertising command-line parameters more? Most options in Exit NVDA list can be invoked from Run dialog. Thanks.

Qchristensen commented 5 years ago

(Sorry, just edited your comment to take out all of my original issue from the reply).

I'm not against advertising the command-line parameters more (do mean in the post on the user group that prompted me to create this issue - or something else?) although ideally restarting with add-ons disabled (or debug logging etc) are things most users should not need to do very often, and not a large percentage of everyday users will be overly familiar with using the run dialog or command line.

For technical people who might want to restart and change options more often - they will likely be familiar with the command line options, or have the exit dialog shown anyway.

Or at least, those are just my assumptions.

XLTechie commented 5 years ago

I definitely agree that something needs to be done here. Twice in the last two weeks, I have seen messages on the users list, from people instructed to perform NVDA-q in order to restart without addons, and who had it fail and didn't know what to do next.

I was going to propose a new button in general settings, called "Restart now with addons disabled" or "Restart now without addons", but i think a variation of your ideas is better.

I dislike the split button idea, mainly because newer users may not know exactly how to handle that, and also it breaks the standard design of the NVDA menu by overloading controls.

But I like the concept of making Exit a submenu. Not only does it keep with the current design philosophy of the NVDA main menu, it could have all the standard exit options on it (starting with exit, so a simple double enter would exit).

Concurrently, I like your idea of a gesture, but I think that by default it should be NVDA+shift+F3, or NVDA+alt+F3, in order to be a related gesture to NVDA+ctrl+F3 (the reload plugins gesture). It is more of a restart/reload action in my mind than a quit action, so I don't think NVDA+shift+q is the best place for it.

josephsl commented 5 years ago

Hi, another option might be an unassigned gesture to restart with add-ons off, similar to what we already have. In regards to gesture suggestion, I’d stay away from NVDA+Shift+F3 due to this being assigned to find previous in browse mode. Thanks,

From: Luke Davis notifications@github.com Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2019 7:09 PM To: nvaccess/nvda nvda@noreply.github.com Cc: Joseph Lee joseph.lee22590@gmail.com; Comment comment@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [nvaccess/nvda] Add additional ways to restart NVDA (#9686)

I definitely agree that something needs to be done here. Twice in the last two weeks, I have seen messages on the users list, from people instructed to perform NVDA-q in order to restart without addons, and who had it fail and didn't know what to do next.

I was going to propose a new button in general settings, called "Restart now with addons disabled" or "Restart now without addons", but i think a variation of your ideas is better.

I dislike the split button idea, mainly because newer users may not know exactly how to handle that, and also it breaks the standard design of the NVDA menu by overloading controls.

But I like the concept of making Exit a submenu. Not only does it keep with the current design philosophy of the NVDA main menu, it could have all the standard exit options on it (starting with exit, so a simple double enter would exit).

Concurrently, I like your idea of a gesture, but I think that by default it should be NVDA+shift+F3, or NVDA+alt+F3, in order to be a related gesture to NVDA+ctrl+F3 (the reload plugins gesture). It is more of a restart/reload action in my mind than a quit action, so I don't think NVDA+shift+q is the best place for it.

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XLTechie commented 5 years ago

Ah, forgot about find previous in browse mode. being NVDA+shift+F3; I retract that part of the suggestion and limit my suggestion to either NVDA+alt+F3, or unassigned.

Brian1Gaff commented 5 years ago

Its going to become more important as add ons lose compatibility with newer versions of nvda of course. I've had restart nvda with and without add ons fail, but it seems this is a problem of some files not being freed fast enough to be ready to write to on the restart in some Windows 7 installations for whatever reason.

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DrSooom commented 5 years ago

I suggest a new submenu called "Restart", which is located above "Exit" – if you don't want to change quite a lot of things.

In addition we can also allocate the following commands:

Well, we could also replace the combobox with checkboxes for each starting parameter. Then it would be possible to combine these options. This isn't the case yet. But then the submenu "Restart" has to be replaced with a normal menu entry called "Restart..." or "Advanced restart..., which opens the Exit Dialog.

Hmm, maybe it's better to completely split the restart option from the Exit Dialog. … Or maybe not. Renaming it to "Exit or restart NVDA" could be enough to. But then we have an inconsistent behavior between the Exit/Restart Dialog and the two menu entries in the NVDA menu. And that's absolutely not good. It's just confusing everybody.

Therefore replacing the Exit Dialog with an Exit Question (Yes or No) might be better. And if the user wants to restart NVDA with additional parameters, he can still use the new menu entry "Restart..." in the NVDA menu or just press NVDA+CTRL+Q to open the renamed and redesigned Exit Dialog.

Qchristensen commented 4 years ago

Actually I'd really love a command which did both restart with add-ons disabled AND debug logging (in fact, are there many times people restart with add-ons disabled who AREN'T trying to troubleshoot something, and therefore debug level logging would be an advantage?)

josephsl commented 4 months ago

Hi,

2024 update: didn't we have a more recent issue/PR proposal around "no to add-ons and yes to debug logging at the same time after restart"?

Thanks.

seanbudd commented 4 months ago

@josephsl - I think that issue is mentioned above, #11538, but I think Quentin's 2 proposals in this issue description are still valid. I think the first proposal is a priority, and the second one could be done by making nvda+q double pressed open the dialog