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UI feedback: Anyone else find frame/time/loop management super confusing? #38

Open df-0 opened 6 years ago

df-0 commented 6 years ago

I think I've now understood how/why to work with multiple looping layers of different loop lengths, it's incredibly useful, but I still find it confusing when the timeline window is not open. That little framerange indicator on the left hand looks very cool but I don't really understand it (not sure that the logarithmic scaling or whatever is helping, but maybe it's not just that). I'm used to the timelines in aftereffects, maya, premiere, flash and harmony, and something about this one's behaviour is definitely different. Am I right in thinking that the in/out points change themselves automatically sometimes? I got in a situation at one point (before I'd even realized the big timeline window existed) where the playback in-out seemed to be set to 1-1, and every time I added a new frame nothing happened, perhaps because it was just pushing the new frame outside the playback range so I couldn't step to it? Anyway, just my opinion, but without opening the (rather hidden) timeline panel, I have no idea what's happening or why...

df-0 commented 6 years ago

I'm actually starting to think that this is a bug, or at least a design flaw. Check this out: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r9UvJnBd830hHFGTjBqo4LCZAoGwlAsf/view so just a little test, (you can step through it frame by frame on google drive by pausing it and pressing , and .). You see those little raindrop particles of light, there's only a 2 frame loop of animation on that layer, then the moving streetlight layer has something like 12 or 14 frames, while the camera move is more like 150 frames. I would have expected the 2 frame loop to play like 12121212121212 for the full ~150 frame length of the clip, but instead it's going (and I'm stepping thru the video here, looking at the 2 flashing red lines above the rear wheel):

12221212121212121212121112121212221212121212121222121212

which of course is deeply weird, and the moving streetlights are doing something even more obviously wrong. I noticed while I was drawing them that stepping through with a combination of add new frame and then going back and adding new frames for inbetweens didn't play the same on repeated loops, so I don't know if I messed up drawing it or it's the playback that's wrong, but something ain't right here, that's for sure!

Can I just check - if I play a playback loop and then it loops round to the start and I step through the animation again, will the layers' frames still be in the same place? Because if they're not, ie like if it's trying to "help" you by continuing the layer's loop wherever it was at the end of the global playback loop, then that could account for the weirdness that's going on here? And imho if, say, frame 10 of a given layer isn't always on the same place on the global timeline depending on how many times you've played through, that's a recipe for madness and disaster :-)

daseyb commented 6 years ago

Can you post a screenshot of your timeline setup for the car shot?

df-0 commented 6 years ago

ah sorry, don't think I'm gonna be in the studio today, should be able to get ya something tomorrow or monday tho...

df-0 commented 6 years ago

ok, you can grab screenshots, stage file and exported videos of the car scene and a loop test here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1v3OZRsYvce69UtmltJRZSZHJvE4jCb-y

df-0 commented 6 years ago

The loop test - so I made a systematic test with a scene with 2, 5 & 9 frame loops, and the car test is the one I sent a video of before.

[update - yes, there's definitely a bug here, moving it to a separate issue since it's not really the main focus of this thread: https://github.com/nvrmind/IssueTracker/issues/41 ]

df-0 commented 6 years ago

Back to the original issue (understanding what's going on!), for the animator, it would be extremely useful to see the global frame number displayed on the frame counter, although I guess you still need the layer's frame number as well - the global number is shown in the timeline view, but not in the main UI, and imho it's the single most important thing to know when you're animating :-)