HP_0000272 Malar flattening and HP_0010669 Hypoplasia of the zygomatic bone have the same logical def

[nicolevasilevsky]

HP_0000272 Malar flattening and HP_0010669 Hypoplasia of the zygomatic bone are inferred to be equiv classes

HP_0000272 Malar flattening 'has part' some (hypoplastic and ('inheres in' some 'jugal bone') and ('has modifier' some abnormal))

Text def: Underdevelopment of the malar prominence of the jugal bone (zygomatic bone in mammals), appreciated in profile, frontal view, and/or by palpation.

HP_0010669 Hypoplasia of the zygomatic bone Logical def: 'has part' some (hypoplastic and ('inheres in' some 'jugal bone') and ('has modifier' some abnormal))

Text def. Underdevelopment of the zygomatic bone [UBERON_0001683]. That is, a reduction in size of the zygomatic bone, including the zygomatic process of the temporal bone of the skull, which forms part of the zygomatic arch.

Maybe 'Malar flattening' should use 'zygomatic arch' in the logical def, because that is what the parent term (Abnormality of malar bones) and the sibling term (Malar prominence) use?

Related to #149

@cmungall @pnrobinson

[drseb]

can you ask mark?

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On 08.09.2016, at 18:44, nicolevasilevsky notifications@github.com wrote:

HP_0000272 Malar flattening and HP_0010669 Hypoplasia of the zygomatic bone are inferred to be equiv classes

HP_0000272 Malar flattening 'has part' some (hypoplastic and ('inheres in' some 'jugal bone') and ('has modifier' some abnormal))

Text def: Underdevelopment of the malar prominence of the jugal bone (zygomatic bone in mammals), appreciated in profile, frontal view, and/or by palpation.

HP_0010669 Hypoplasia of the zygomatic bone Logical def: 'has part' some (hypoplastic and ('inheres in' some 'jugal bone') and ('has modifier' some abnormal))

Text def. Underdevelopment of the zygomatic bone [UBERON_0001683]. That is, a reduction in size of the zygomatic bone, including the zygomatic process of the temporal bone of the skull, which forms part of the zygomatic arch.

Maybe 'Malar flattening' should use 'zygomatic arch' in the logical def, because that is what the parent term (Abnormality of malar bones) and the sibling term (Malar prominence) use?

Related to #149

@cmungall @pnrobinson

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[nicolevasilevsky]

@markengelstad - can you comment?

[markengelstad]

Hi!

"Malar" and "zygomatic" are a big source of confusion in HPO and SNOMED and everywhere.

'Malar bone' is an older label that is a syonoym of Zygomatic bone, so one approach would be to make malar flattening a narrow synonym of zygomatic hypoplasia. Also, as an aside the 'zygomatic arch' is actually made of two bones that meet in an arch -- the temporal process of the zygoma and the zygomatic process of the temporal bone.

Anyway, The best way to think about it is that 'Malar' refers to a REGION OF THE FACE that is made primarily of the prominences provided by the zygomatic bone. Malar should not really be a bone, but a region. Small zygoma leads to malar flattening.

And Zygoma(tic) refers to a specific bone. In other words, one can see all malar flattening as an external facial phenotype without the aid of radiography. However, zygomatic hypoplasia could require radiography to assess, and not all zygomatic hypoplasias would be severe enough to lead to malar flattening.

does that clarify?

Its a big job, but ...

• 'Malar' should refer to a facial region.
• 'Zygoma/ Jugal' should be a facial bone structure
• and 'malar bone' in the context of a specific bone should be a synonym of 'zygoma'

[nicolevasilevsky]

@pnrobinson and @drseb Should we merge these terms as Mark suggests?

[pnrobinson]

Should we have a session with Mark to go over this? One issue is that Elements of Morphology have also created a lot of terms here, and we should try to remain consistent with them. I would prefer not to change terms in isolation but to do one coordinated sweep across this -- @markengelstad do you have some time to join a skype about this? THanks!

[nicolevasilevsky]

Since it may take some time to get this properly resolved, would it be okay if I just removed the logical definition from HP_0000272 Malar flattening for now, so we don't have the incorrect equivalence?

[markengelstad]

I can join you guys for sure. and i think peter is right -- as i go back and forth on this, there are so many options. The elements of morphology aren't optimal in many ways, but overall i think its best to stick with their terminology.

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 4:27 PM Nicole Vasilevsky notifications@github.com wrote:

Since it may take some time to get this properly resolved, would it be okay if I just removed the logical definition from HP_0000272 Malar flattening for now, so we don't have the incorrect equivalence?

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