First prototype

[ohbendy]

Here's a first prototype for you to play with (click the download button on that page).

I've put in basic OpenType shaping to substitute the alternates we've already discussed but there will be a few more things to add.

Looks fun using Hibizcus to test:

[ohbendy]

I believe we have all the glyphs needed for Phake language (and probably Aiton, Khamyang, Khamti and Turung?)

Here's the character set:

I wasn't too sure about the sound values for the combined vowel letters, looks like there are several ways to write the O vowel?

Unless there's anything missing, I'm happy to start letting users try the font and ask for feedback!

[StephenMorey]

Thank you. The only thing I'm concerned about while looking at it is the form of ha ( -

I think that this is a very reasonable alternative shape for 'h' - this is effectively ka plus tail. But the basic shape of ha, in my view should be kha plus tail, much closer to the original form in the original font.

[ChowKensan]

I agree with Sir Stephen. The main consonant for HAA should be the one that looks like KHA + a tail. The curly HAA should be an alternative.

[StephenMorey]

Thanks Kensan. The curly HAA could perhaps also be described as KA with a tail and is this one:

[ohbendy]

Sorry, when we discussed this I thought you meant to have the curly one as default. I have updated with the two versions switched.

[ohbendy]

For the vowels, I also noticed this sequence which I think is 102D 103F.

In Burmese that makes an 'o' or 'au' sound, is it the same in Phake? Is there somewhere a list of all the vowels? I feel like my chart above isn't complete or fully correct.

[StephenMorey]

this combination, is initial consonant followed by 102D, 102F then a final consonant then 103A. If the final consonant is WA 101D, it represents a final vowel /ɯ/ or /ɤ/ (which can be written in various ways). If the final consonant is something else, the final consonant is pronounced. So ကိုင် would be /kɯŋ/ or /kɤŋ/ and ကိုၺ် would be /kɯi/ or /kɤi/. In the reformed Shan alphabet, there are two forms to distinguish the higher of these two vowel /ɯ/ from the lower /ɤ/.

In older manuscripts the top of the u is often brought up to meet the i. We should get Kensan's advice but I think this is a good thing for the font to do.

My original Phake font did have a special character for this combination of 102D and 102F

[ohbendy]

I can easily put in something like this if you want it:

Also for 102D 1030 with two legs?

[StephenMorey]

I'd like to see what Kensan feels and what he would draw for both of these combinations:

[ohbendy]

I'd like to make sure we've covered all the possible vowels and diphthongs (preferably to list them in alphabetic order). I've updated my chart to include the new ones, and a couple of others I saw in Stephen's documentation:

Kensan/Stephen, do you think this covers all the real combinations that could occur in these languages? (I will do a separate line for those 'shorthand' combinations like O+AU+II which are not single vowels / diphthongs but are written on a single consonant pronounced as two separate syllables.)

[ChowKensan]

Yes, this includes all the vowels and dipthongs in the Tai script.

[StephenMorey]

Thanks Ben

[ohbendy]

What's the sound value of 103D 1036 please? Could it be OM?

[ChowKensan]

Yes, OM.

[StephenMorey]

Mostly /ɔm/ rather than /om/ in those Tai varieties that distinguish these. In the Phake dictionary being made by Ailot Hailowng he writes /ɔm/ this way, but /om/ and /um/ with 102F

[ohbendy]

Great. Looks like I need to update 102F 1036 to om/um too. Does this dictionary have an alphabetic order for the vowels we can copy?

[StephenMorey]

Well the alphabetical order is consonants first - in the order expressed in the UTN-5

But the vowel order is more complicated to explain. I will send you a document that I made many years ago, according to the late Aimya Khang Gohain. Stephen

[ohbendy]

I think the consonants there are in the same order as my table above. I was thinking when we start circulating the font it's also good to show the character set like that.

Working on the vowels now. Should /aɯ/ be 105E A9E5 or 105E 103A? In my table above it's A9E5

[ohbendy]

Ok here are the vowels currently, according to the order Stephen gave from Aimya Khang Gohain. Final consonants are indicated by a dotted circle.

I added:

• 109C before 1083;
• 1031 1083 A9E5 after 1031 1083;
• 102D 102F 109C after 102D 102F + killed consonant

And I adjusted 103D 103A to 103D A9E5.

The odd one is 105E A9E5 which seems to come in between the combinations with 103D at the end.

I'm also not quite sure of the best place for A9E5 1036.