Ligature?

[ohbendy]

I notice that 103D A9E5 is often joined like this:

Currently we have both marks joining the consonant rather than joining each other:

Would it be preferable to form a ligature for this sequence?

[StephenMorey]

I have discussed this with Kensan and he wrote to me that 'I will send the drawing of “thau” and “lui” today evening. Right now I’m outside my hometown.' Actually in this photo, the first symbol is 1011 103D A9E5 (thau), it would be written 1011 103D 103A by most people today and the second word 101C 102D 102F 109C (lui) This is, I think, the only situation where the combination of 102D and 102F actually expresses the vowels i and u, in the order ui. . (Note: The order iu would be expressed by Consonant + 102D + 101D + 103A)

[ChowKensan]

I have checked out some new manuscripts and I haven't found any example where vowels 'i' and 'ow' (as in thau) and also vowel 'i', 'u' and short 'a' (lui) are joined. But as our new font is based on old manuscripts so I would prefer for joining the vowels in both cases. Such examples can be also found in old Khamti manuscripts. Below pictures are my drawings:

[ChowKensan]

Hello. Yesterday while checking out some manuscripts I have found the combination of vowel "AU' and long "I" which is not there in the new font. I am attaching here some pictures:

Examples of 'AU' and 'long I' (Mau mi)

[ChowKensan]

Also I forgot to inform that 'SAT' and the vowel 'AI' can be written together in the following way-

It is written 'nang nai' and 'wan nai'. I feel that all these combinations should be there in the manscript style font.

[StephenMorey]

In the case of nang nai we would need to allow for 109D followed by 103A so this is AA6B 1004 109D 103A nang would be AA6B 1004 103A nai would be AA6B 109D

Readers of the language know that phrases like nang nai 'like this' and wan nai 'this today, today' are very common and that this isn't read as nang ngai

[ohbendy]

I have checked out some new manuscripts and I haven't found any example where vowels 'i' and 'ow' (as in thau) and also vowel 'i', 'u' and short 'a' (lui) are joined. But as our new font is based on old manuscripts so I would prefer for joining the vowels in both cases. Such examples can be also found in old Khamti manuscripts. Below pictures are my drawings:

I worry that in your writing, the -i vowel could be confused for the -ii vowel because of the little loop where it joins the post-base -u vowel. Would it be bad to simplify by removing that loop?

[ChowKensan]

I have checked out some new manuscripts and I haven't found any example where vowels 'i' and 'ow' (as in thau) and also vowel 'i', 'u' and short 'a' (lui) are joined. But as our new font is based on old manuscripts so I would prefer for joining the vowels in both cases. Such examples can be also found in old Khamti manuscripts. Below pictures are my drawings:

I worry that in your writing, the -i vowel could be confused for the -ii vowel because of the little loop where it joins the post-base -u vowel. Would it be bad to simplify by removing that loop?

Yes, you can. No problem.

[ohbendy]

For the 'mau mi' and 'nang nai', I'm interested to see the writing order is right to left: the -au of 'mau mi' appears to the right of the -i, and the asat of 'nang nai' appears to the right of the -ai. So the second sound is written to the left of the first sound. That suggests that the typing / storage / Unicode order should be -au then -i and asat then -ai. Indeed Unicode doesn't seem to like -ai then asat.

But I'm also wondering if there was a phrase like 'mi mau' would the -i go on the right and the -au on the left?

[ChowKensan]

Please ignore these two words - nang nai and wan nai. I have found better examples in manuscript where SAT is written first and then the vowel. In the first pic, it is written 'Khun ni' (prince good).

In the second pic, it is written 'khun nai' (prince this).

In the third pic, it is written "kan nuo' (meaning above).

[ohbendy]

Ok, I will make the sat come first on the left. However, in the first two examples the sat looks like our shape for the -au vowel, that's going to be confusing.

[ChowKensan]

You can use the SAT that we have already in our manuscript font.

[ohbendy]

For the asat + -ai vowel, it's crashing rather badly if we use the normal shapes:

If I tilt the -ai a bit we get far fewer collisions:

I can kern the NGA in such situations.

[ChowKensan]

I think it’s a bit problem to have this combination of SAT and vowel. Let’s leave it. We can write in usual way- KHA + U + N + SAT = Khun, N + AI= Nai.

[ohbendy]

Haha, yes, that would be simpler. But if you want to figure out the best appearance I can make it in the font. Generally I like to include as many combinations as possible so things don't go weird if people do actually want to type those combinations.

[ohbendy]

The i + u turns out like this:

The au + ii causes problems:

The auw could be like this?

(I kerned it to give a little gap next to NGA, when it's touching it blocks the shape rather badly)

[ohbendy]

AUW + II causes problems with the default shape from above:

Maybe it can be more like in the manuscripts:

[StephenMorey]

Good morning from Australia, Firstly, I like the i + u

and the o + au

[ChowKensan]

I agree with Sir Stephen. Both are beautiful.